Info please

[rickusn]

Im looking for Paid Off dates for the Type 15 and 16 frigate conversions.

"Strength of the Fleet" info for any/all years of the 1960's.

And the Royal Navy's late 1950's 88 Fleet and/or 90 Fleet plans.

Thanks for your time and any info.

 

[Salty-Dog]

May find some useful info on following link:

http://www.btinternet.com/~warship/Postwar/Frigates/

 

[Nutty]

Here are some

Toubridge Chatham 5.5.70
Ursa Plymouth Sept 67
Vigilant 4.6.65
Wakeful 5.5.71
Grenville for sale 74
Relentess 8.65
Petard 6.67

It of course means what you consider to be paid off. Could this be the last day of their last commission, The day they were sold for scrap or to another navy, the day they arrived at ship breakers or when they were placed on the reserved or for sale list.

The above date are a mixture taken from Maritime Books, RN in Focus 1960 to 69.

To get strength of fleet, manpower, paid off dates etc. find a library with a full set of Janes Fighting ships for the period 1955 to date, they will contain just about all you want to know about 15's, 16's and any other RN unit of the period. I only have 1965 and 1975 copies.

Nutty

Try this for a full list of 15's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_15_frigate

Google same for type 16's

 

[rickusn]

"Could this be the last day of their last commission"

Thats what Im looking for.

The only book at my disposal is Conways All The Worlds Fighting Ships 1947-82.

And it like most Internet sources only provides final fate dates.

Unfortunately I live in the boonies of northern Wisconsin and no Janes much less a complete set of Janes are available.

Im told two other books have some of this info:

Vanguard to Trident
The Decline of British Seapower

But alas I have no access to those either.

Probably should try and buy used copies.

Here is some of the stiuff Im interested in that I have been able to gather:

On July 1st, 1956, the strength of the Fleet was as follows:
A. Ships in commission or preparing for service with it.

2 FLEET CARRIERS Eagle, Ark Royal

6 LIGHT FLEET CARRIERS Centaur, Albion, Warrior; Bulwark flying training); Theseus and Ocean (non-flying training).

9 CRUISERS Ceylon, Jamaica, Glasgow, Superb, Newfound

land, Birmingham, Newcastle, Kenya and

Cumberland (trials).

1 GUIDED WEAPON TRIALS SHIP Girdle Ness.

4 DEPOT SHIPS Tyne, Maidstone, Adamant, Forth.

8 DARING CLASS SHIPS Daring, Delight, Defender, Diana, Duchess, Diamond, Decoy, Dainty.

24 DESTROYERS 2 Weapon Class; 7 Battle Class; 12 C Class;

Vigo, Savage and Obdurate.

53 FRIGATES 18 Destroyer Conversions; 7 Black Swan Class;

9 Bay Class; 7 Loch Class; 3 Castle Class;

1 Grimsby Class; 1 Hunt Class; 5 Blackwood

Class; 2 Whitby Class.

2 FAST MINELAYERS Apollo, Manxman.

1 NETLAYER Protector.

2 COASTAL MINESWEEPER

H.Q. SHIPS Mull of Galloway, Woodbridge Haven.

71 MINESWEEPERS 10 Ocean., 34 Coastal; 27 Inshore.

42 SUBMARINES (include 2 X-Craft).

1 REPAIR SHIP Ranpura.

1 DEEP DIVING VESSEL Reclaim.

1 RESCUE BELL SHIP Kingfisher.

7 SURVEY SHIPS Vidal, Cook, Dalrymple, Owen, Scott, Shackleton,

Dampier.

20 COASTAL CRAFT 17 Fast Patrol Boats; 3 Seaward Patrol Craft.

8 LANDING VESSELS 1 Landing Ship Headquarters; 4 Tank Landing

Ships; 3 Tank Landing Craft.

1 MINELAYER Plover.

5 CONTROLLED MINELAYERS; 22 BOOM DEFENCE VESSELS (6 Civilian manned);

4 DE-GAUSSING VESSELS (3 Civilian manned).

B. Ships undergoing extended refit or modernisation or in Reserve.

3 FLEET CARRIERS Victorious, Illustrious, Indefatigable.

3 LIGHT FLEET CARRIERS Triumph, Glory, Vengeance.

5 BATTLESHIPS Vanguard, Anson, Duke of York, Howe, Kin,,, George V.

12 CRUISERS . Sheffield, Bermuda, Cleopatra, Mauritius, Belfast, Bellona, Dido, Euryalus, Sirius, Swiftsure, Liverpool, Gambia.

1 AIRCRAFT REPAIR SHIP Perseus

1 AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE CARRIER Unicorn.

44 DESTROYERS

19 SUBMARINES (including 2 X-Craft)

47 TANK LANDING SHIPS AND CRAFT 8 MAINTENANCE SHIPS

52 BOOM DEFENCE VESSELS (51 Civilian manned'

C. Ships in course of construction.

1 LIGHT FLEET CARRIER Hermes.

3 CRUISERS Tiger, Blake, Defence (Defence became HMS LION)

19 FRIGATES 4 Anti-Aircraft; 4 Aircraft Direction,. (one of these was HMS Chichester) 11 AntiSubmarine.

3 SUBMARINES 'excludes those not yet launched).

69MINESWEEPERS 45 Coastal; 24 Inshore.

17COASTAL CRAFT 15 Fast Patrol Boats; 2 Seaward Patrol Craft.

110 FRIGATES

190 MINESWEEPERS

1 NETLAYER

1 REPAIR SHIP

1 SURVEY SHIP

1 DE-GAUSSING VESSEL

1 FAST MINELAYER

41 COASTAL CRAFT

1 DESTROYER DEPOT SHIP

6 CONTROLLED MINELAYERS

1 RADAR TRAINING SHIP

In 1961-62, the following ships were shown as Operational or Preparing for Service: Ark Royal, Hermes, Victorious, Centaur; Bulwark; Belfast, Bermuda, Lion, Tiger, Blake; 4 Darings, 7 Battles, 4 Weapons, 5C's; 4 Leopards, 1 Black Swan, 1 Bay class AA frigates; 3 Salisbury class AD frigates; 11 Whitby and Rothesay class, 4 Blackwood class, 3 Type 15 and 6 Loch class AS frigates; 2 Despatch Vessels; Ice Patrol Ship Protector; 30 Porpoise, Oberon, A, T and S class submarines; 26 Coastal, 12 Inshore minesweepers; 3 Seaward Patrol Craft; 1 Landing Ship HQ, 3 Tank Landing Ships, 3 Tank Landing Craft.
Ships shown as Engaged on Trials or Training include Girdle Ness, 2 C's; 6 Blackwood class, 10 Type 15 and 1 Hunt class frigates; 1 E and 1 S class submarines; 2 Ocean, 10 Coastal and 2 Inshore minesweepers; 2 Seaward Patrol Craft; 2 Fast Patrol Boats; 1 Tank Landing Craft.

The 80 Fleet was based upon the following premises:
Far East Station reduced to 2 frigates; Persian Gulf frigates reduced from 6 to 4, allowing 2 on station at all times; South Atlantic abandoned, but Protector retained (Protector later replaced by Endurance); America and West Indies Station abandoned; main body of fleet to consist of three carrier task groups, each with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates rotating between Home, Mediterranean, Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean, with the CTG East of Suez augmented by a commando ship and an escort maintenance ship. Remainder of fleet divided between trials and training and a standing Home Fleet (3 destroyers, 3 frigates, 1 fast minelayer, 1 destroyer depot ship); five frigates for Fishery Protection; 20 submarines and 2 depot ships in Home waters; minesweeper support ship, 12 coastal minesweepers 5 submarines, a sub accommodation ship, a heavy repair ship and the amphibious warfare squadron in the Mediterranean with a RM Commando at Malta (2 of Med subs det to provide A/S training for Easter Carrier Task Group). Fleet disposition in 1961/62:
Fleet Carriers - 1 Med, 1 Home or refitting, both in Carrier task groups + 1 in Reserve
Light Fleet Carriers - 1 in East Indies Task Group + 2 in Reserve
Cruisers - 1 in ea carrier task group = 3 + 2 in Reserve
Destroyers - 4 in each carrier task group, 3 in Home Fleet, 1 in Training Squadron = 16 + 24 in Reserve
Frigates - 4 in each carrier task group, 3 in Home Fleet, 4 in Persian Gulf, 2 in Far East, 15 in Training Squadron = 36 + 26 in Reserve

Not much I know.
Tracking the changes of the RN and why fascinates me.

But again alas I dont have acess to nearly enough information.

Thanks for your help!!!!!!
Rick

 

[Nutty]

Rik

Give me a day or two and I will transcribe the 65 and 75 figures for you.

I doubt if you will get the date of the last day in commission from any other place that the admiralty records which are probably at Public Records Office at Kew in London and would need Hours of research done only by a personal visit.

Nutty

 

[fido]

"Could this be the last day of their last commission"

Thats what Im looking for.

The only book at my disposal is Conways All The Worlds Fighting Ships 1947-82.

And it like most Internet sources only provides final fate dates.

Unfortunately I live in the boonies of northern Wisconsin and no Janes much less a complete set of Janes are available.

Im told two other books have some of this info:

Vanguard to Trident
The Decline of British Seapower

But alas I have no access to those either.

Probably should try and buy used copies.

Here is some of the stiuff Im interested in that I have been able to gather:

On July 1st, 1956, the strength of the Fleet was as follows:
A. Ships in commission or preparing for service with it.

2 FLEET CARRIERS Eagle, Ark Royal

6 LIGHT FLEET CARRIERS Centaur, Albion, Warrior; Bulwark flying training); Theseus and Ocean (non-flying training).

9 CRUISERS Ceylon, Jamaica, Glasgow, Superb, Newfound

land, Birmingham, Newcastle, Kenya and

Cumberland (trials).

1 GUIDED WEAPON TRIALS SHIP Girdle Ness.

4 DEPOT SHIPS Tyne, Maidstone, Adamant, Forth.

8 DARING CLASS SHIPS Daring, Delight, Defender, Diana, Duchess, Diamond, Decoy, Dainty.

24 DESTROYERS 2 Weapon Class; 7 Battle Class; 12 C Class;

Vigo, Savage and Obdurate.

53 FRIGATES 18 Destroyer Conversions; 7 Black Swan Class;

9 Bay Class; 7 Loch Class; 3 Castle Class;

1 Grimsby Class; 1 Hunt Class; 5 Blackwood

Class; 2 Whitby Class.

2 FAST MINELAYERS Apollo, Manxman.

1 NETLAYER Protector.

2 COASTAL MINESWEEPER

H.Q. SHIPS Mull of Galloway, Woodbridge Haven.

71 MINESWEEPERS 10 Ocean., 34 Coastal; 27 Inshore.

42 SUBMARINES (include 2 X-Craft).

1 REPAIR SHIP Ranpura.

1 DEEP DIVING VESSEL Reclaim.

1 RESCUE BELL SHIP Kingfisher.

7 SURVEY SHIPS Vidal, Cook, Dalrymple, Owen, Scott, Shackleton,

Dampier.

20 COASTAL CRAFT 17 Fast Patrol Boats; 3 Seaward Patrol Craft.

8 LANDING VESSELS 1 Landing Ship Headquarters; 4 Tank Landing

Ships; 3 Tank Landing Craft.

1 MINELAYER Plover.

5 CONTROLLED MINELAYERS; 22 BOOM DEFENCE VESSELS (6 Civilian manned);

4 DE-GAUSSING VESSELS (3 Civilian manned).

B. Ships undergoing extended refit or modernisation or in Reserve.

3 FLEET CARRIERS Victorious, Illustrious, Indefatigable.

3 LIGHT FLEET CARRIERS Triumph, Glory, Vengeance.

5 BATTLESHIPS Vanguard, Anson, Duke of York, Howe, Kin,,, George V.

12 CRUISERS . Sheffield, Bermuda, Cleopatra, Mauritius, Belfast, Bellona, Dido, Euryalus, Sirius, Swiftsure, Liverpool, Gambia.

1 AIRCRAFT REPAIR SHIP Perseus

1 AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE CARRIER Unicorn.

44 DESTROYERS

19 SUBMARINES (including 2 X-Craft)

47 TANK LANDING SHIPS AND CRAFT 8 MAINTENANCE SHIPS

52 BOOM DEFENCE VESSELS (51 Civilian manned'

C. Ships in course of construction.

1 LIGHT FLEET CARRIER Hermes.

3 CRUISERS Tiger, Blake, Defence (Defence became HMS LION)

19 FRIGATES 4 Anti-Aircraft; 4 Aircraft Direction,. (one of these was HMS Chichester) 11 AntiSubmarine.

3 SUBMARINES 'excludes those not yet launched).

69MINESWEEPERS 45 Coastal; 24 Inshore.

17COASTAL CRAFT 15 Fast Patrol Boats; 2 Seaward Patrol Craft.

110 FRIGATES

190 MINESWEEPERS

1 NETLAYER

1 REPAIR SHIP

1 SURVEY SHIP

1 DE-GAUSSING VESSEL

1 FAST MINELAYER

41 COASTAL CRAFT

1 DESTROYER DEPOT SHIP

6 CONTROLLED MINELAYERS

1 RADAR TRAINING SHIP

In 1961-62, the following ships were shown as Operational or Preparing for Service: Ark Royal, Hermes, Victorious, Centaur; Bulwark; Belfast, Bermuda, Lion, Tiger, Blake; 4 Darings, 7 Battles, 4 Weapons, 5C's; 4 Leopards, 1 Black Swan, 1 Bay class AA frigates; 3 Salisbury class AD frigates; 11 Whitby and Rothesay class, 4 Blackwood class, 3 Type 15 and 6 Loch class AS frigates; 2 Despatch Vessels; Ice Patrol Ship Protector; 30 Porpoise, Oberon, A, T and S class submarines; 26 Coastal, 12 Inshore minesweepers; 3 Seaward Patrol Craft; 1 Landing Ship HQ, 3 Tank Landing Ships, 3 Tank Landing Craft.
Ships shown as Engaged on Trials or Training include Girdle Ness, 2 C's; 6 Blackwood class, 10 Type 15 and 1 Hunt class frigates; 1 E and 1 S class submarines; 2 Ocean, 10 Coastal and 2 Inshore minesweepers; 2 Seaward Patrol Craft; 2 Fast Patrol Boats; 1 Tank Landing Craft.

The 80 Fleet was based upon the following premises:
Far East Station reduced to 2 frigates; Persian Gulf frigates reduced from 6 to 4, allowing 2 on station at all times; South Atlantic abandoned, but Protector retained (Protector later replaced by Endurance); America and West Indies Station abandoned; main body of fleet to consist of three carrier task groups, each with 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates rotating between Home, Mediterranean, Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean, with the CTG East of Suez augmented by a commando ship and an escort maintenance ship. Remainder of fleet divided between trials and training and a standing Home Fleet (3 destroyers, 3 frigates, 1 fast minelayer, 1 destroyer depot ship); five frigates for Fishery Protection; 20 submarines and 2 depot ships in Home waters; minesweeper support ship, 12 coastal minesweepers 5 submarines, a sub accommodation ship, a heavy repair ship and the amphibious warfare squadron in the Mediterranean with a RM Commando at Malta (2 of Med subs det to provide A/S training for Easter Carrier Task Group). Fleet disposition in 1961/62:
Fleet Carriers - 1 Med, 1 Home or refitting, both in Carrier task groups + 1 in Reserve
Light Fleet Carriers - 1 in East Indies Task Group + 2 in Reserve
Cruisers - 1 in ea carrier task group = 3 + 2 in Reserve
Destroyers - 4 in each carrier task group, 3 in Home Fleet, 1 in Training Squadron = 16 + 24 in Reserve
Frigates - 4 in each carrier task group, 3 in Home Fleet, 4 in Persian Gulf, 2 in Far East, 15 in Training Squadron = 36 + 26 in Reserve

Not much I know.
Tracking the changes of the RN and why fascinates me.

But again alas I dont have acess to nearly enough information.

Thanks for your help!!!!!!
Rick

HMS ALBION (Light Fleet Carrier redesignated as a Commando Carrier) was certainly in commission - as was HMS Bulwark) in 1962. I served in the former and relieved the latter on the Far East station.

 

[rickusn]

Bulwark is listed.

I said I only posted part of what I had.

Heres Albion:

Ships shown as In Reserve or Undergoing Extended Refit, Modernization, Conversion, etc. were: Eagle, Albion, Triumph, Magnificient; Sheffield, Gambia, Mauritius; 4 Daring, 11 Battle, 9 C and 1 O class destroyers; 2 Blackwood, 3 Whitby, 8 Type 15, 10 Type 16, 6 Loch class AS frigates; 1 Salisbury class AD frigate; 3 Bay, 2 Black Swan and 3 Hunt class AA frigates; 24 Porpose, A, E, T and S class and X-Craft submarines; 22 Ocean, 67 Coastal, 60 Inshore Minesweepers; Fast Minelayers Ariadne and Manxman; 10 Fast Patrol Boats; 12 Seaward Patrol Craft; 1 Tank Landing Ship; 6 Tank Landing Craft; netlayer Guardian; Destroyer Depot Ships Tyne and Woolwich; Sub Depot Ship Maidstone; 1 Submarine Support Ship; 5 Maintenance Ships; 1 Survey Ship; 3 Controlled Minelayers; 34 Mooring, Salvage and Boom Vessels

My Conways confirms Albion was being coverted to a Commando Ship 1961-1962.

But she certainly could have been recommissioned in 1962 also.

Hope that explains things.
Rick

 

[Nutty]

Gleaned from Janes

1965 to 1966

Royal Navy 1965

Personnel 65 to 66 104,000

Carriers: Eagle, Ark Royal, Victorious,Hermes, Centaur
Commando (troop) Carriers: Albion, Bulwak
Cruisers: Blake, Lion, Tiger. (Belfast and Sheffield in Reserve)
Destroyer Missile: 8
Destroyers: 23
Frigates: (Modern) 46
Frigates (2nd Class) 12
Frigates (WW11 or WW11 Destroyer conversions) 14
SSN: 1
SSK: 42
Mine Sweeper Support Ship: 1
Ice Patrol Ship: 1
Landing HQ Ship 1 (In Reserve)
Heavy Repair Ship: 1
Submarine Depot Ships: 4
Maintenance Ships: 5
Missile Test Ship: 1
Survey Ships: 12
Mine Sweepers Coastal: 93
Mine Sweepers Inshore; 43
Minelayers: 6
LST: 7
LCM: 2
LCT: 9
Minor Landing Craft: 59
Fast Patrol Boats: 25
Helicopter Support Ship: 1
Boom Defence Vessel: 27
Royal Yacht: 1
Tank Cleaning Vessel: 8
Ocean Salvage Vessel: 12
Mine Trials Ship: 1
Cable Layers: 2
Trials Vessel: 2
Fleet Tenders: 12
Stores Ships: 14
Fleet Tankers: 34
Degaussing Vessel: 3
Ammo Carrier: 14
Water Carrier: 18
Ocean Tug: 26

I have little or no indication which ships were in reserve or commission or long refit or conversion.


the 1975 Janes has more detail is this what you are looking for before I type that out.

Nutty

 

[rickusn]

"Destroyers: 23
Frigates (WW11 or WW11 Destroyer conversions) 14"

That would be great but if you could list the above 37 ships by name that would be far more useful to me.

Thanks for your time and any info.

Your efforts are much appreciated.

Rick

 

[Nutty]

Destroyers Missile
4} Devonshire, Hampshire, Kent, London, (Four more in build)

Destroyers
8} Dainty, Daring, Decoy, Defender, Delight, Diamond, Diana, Duchess
3} Broadsword, Crossbow, Broadsword (radar picket)
4} Agincourt, Aisne, Barrosa, Corrunna (radar picket)
7} Caesar, Cambrian, Caprice, Carysfort, Cassandra, Cavalier, Cavendish

Frigates

Type 15:
Grenville, Troubridge, Ulster, Undaunted, Urania, Ursa, Verulam, Wakeful, Whirlwind, Zest

Early Type 15:
Relentless

Type 16.
Terpsichore

Loch Class:
Loch Killisport, Loch Fada

Of interest HMS Loch Killisport was my first ship in 1963 based out of Singapore Naval Base.

Nutty

PS I seemed to have lost a destroyer in the counting.

 

[Greenie]

the only sure way of getting the information you want is to se if you can access old issues of the Navy List .
It will tell you everything ----------------ships in commission ,ships in reserve ,shore bases etc .
They came out quite frequently but one from each year would give a complete layout of the RN ships and status.

Only thing they don't say is class and type!So you would have to id the vessel names .

 

[rickusn]

Nutty:

"Of interest HMS Loch Killisport was my first ship in 1963 based out of Singapore Naval Base."

How were they to ride compared to the new Tribal class frigates?

Wasnt the Daring Class ship Duchess transferred to Austrailia in 1964?

Thanks for the info!

Thanks to all for their comments. and suggestions.

Keep them coming!

If anyone comes across interesting bits of info please post.

Thanks again to all for their time , info and patience.

Its much appreciated.

I havent been to England since the fall of 1977. Portland area to be exact. I had a grand time mostly just wandering from pub to pub.

 

[Nutty]

Duchess in 1964 was still a RN unit on loan to the RAN who provided the crew to replace Voyager which had been sunk in a collision with an Aircraft Carrier.

The Loch class were utility build WW11 Frigate, slow 16 knts max. Rolled on soaking wet grass, but had full A/con in accomodation spaces. They were still equipped in general with the same facilities, accomodation, weapons and sensors that they had in 1945. Never ever went on a Tribal but served on a Type 12 HMS Tenby and its decendent the Leander Class were great sea keeping units, with great habitility except in very hot climes. Type 12's having no A/con in early 60's. Both classes were a bit under-armed but all the same great ships to serve on. Leanders are still much loved by them that served on them.

Nutty

PS I made it as far as Detroit on my last skimmer Tenby before I joined boats.

 

[Not_a_boffin]

Leo Marriots book RN Frigates since 1945 gives the fate of all type 15 & 16 conversions. Mostly scapping dates rather than pay-off, but one or two are in there.

 

[whitemouse]

Bulwark is listed.

I said I only posted part of what I had.

Heres Albion:
........, But she certainly could have been recommissioned in 1962 also.

Hope that explains things.
Rick

Albion (RO7) was decommissioned in about 1973, having been bought to be converted for use in the North Sea Oilfields. Towed to Faslane to be broken up after the conversion was cancelled by the buyers.