Incredible shrinking (Royal) Navy per CNN

broadside

War Hero
Not the most inspiring piece of journalism but probably good enough for purpose - ie fill some time on air and make a point that, in isolation, looks bad but in the context of world affairs means the square root of bugger all.

Yes, the UK government is having to make cuts in public spending (including the armed forces) but you can count on the fingers of one hand those countries who are going in the opposite direction so the argument about a smaller voice just does not fit.

Having said that, who gives a stuff about having a loud voice in international affairs if the corrollory of that is that we end up getting dragged into Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Korea, Uncle Tom Cobley and all on the shirt tails of Uncle Sam?
 

Quickstick4

Newbie
Was depressing, but when put in context I agree with broadside.

in 1800 it was something in the region on 50% of GDP being used on out armed forces to fight Boney, in 1980 it was around 4.5%.

These days it 2%. So while yes we are in abit of financial trouble as a country, the percentage of the UK funds being spent on defence has declined.

If the percentage stayed the same over time you could argue what he wanted to; that we have no place in the future - but its flawed. Essentially the argument should be that we will have a diminished position in the future because successive governments and voters no longer care about were we fit in the world, just about the next hand out.
GovermentPage on Where my money goes

EDIT: I also wanted to say that nearly all European countries are doing the same as us in slowly eroding the military
 
broadside said:
Yes, the UK government is having to make cuts in public spending (including the armed forces) but you can count on the fingers of one hand those countries who are going in the opposite direction
Well, although it's slowed a bit http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4527285 , then http://www.defencetalk.com/defence-budget-increase-india-24241/ , http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100603-rianovosti01.htm , http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/02...litary-spending-colombia-as-percentage-of-gdp . OK, fingers of one hand can be quite impressive if they make a fist.

broadside said:
Having said that, who gives a stuff about having a loud voice in international affairs if the corrollory of that is that we end up getting dragged into Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Korea, Uncle Tom Cobley and all on the shirt tails of Uncle Sam?
Leaving aside Uncle Sam's new mission from God, I take it we should have kept our beak out of Poland's problems in '39?
 

broadside

War Hero
Passed-over_Loggie said:
broadside said:
Yes, the UK government is having to make cuts in public spending (including the armed forces) but you can count on the fingers of one hand those countries who are going in the opposite direction
Well, although it's slowed a bit http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4527285 , then http://www.defencetalk.com/defence-budget-increase-india-24241/ , http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-100603-rianovosti01.htm , http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/02...litary-spending-colombia-as-percentage-of-gdp . OK, fingers of one hand can be quite impressive if they make a fist.

broadside said:
Having said that, who gives a stuff about having a loud voice in international affairs if the corrollory of that is that we end up getting dragged into Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Korea, Uncle Tom Cobley and all on the shirt tails of Uncle Sam?
Leaving aside Uncle Sam's new mission from God, I take it we should have kept our beak out of Poland's problems in '39?
Did I say that? I was under the impression that we (UK) had signed an accord with Poland - I do not recall any such undertaking with regard to Iraq (which was illegal IMHO and that of many others), or agreeing to help the US in the event of a terrorist attack on NY etc and I certainly don't remember Uncle Sam rushing in to help over "the Troubles" and IRA bombings in Birmingham, Manchester and London and whilst still in full throat about Poland - where was Uncle Sam in 1939? - it cuts both ways you know.
 
I agree entirely about the Iraq adventure and its fraudulent origins. As I remember Startex HERRICK, though, the septics invoked a rather loose interpretation of Article 5 of the NATO Agreement.

I also agree with your view on the two faced US attitude to terrs.
 

Rumrat

War Hero
Besides cutting ones cloth to suit ones purse, I cannot see the need for any large wing of the armed forces.
Having said that I imagine the staffing levels at present to be sustainable and correct.
When we had an empire and a need to defend it yes, but now?
Self defence seems to be the order of the day in most cases, and if an adversary grows in size with an agenda to attack us we play the nuclear card.
A well armed submarine service with modern reliable boats, and the two new carriers with a means to defend them(type 45's) and what else do we need as oppose to want?
We are no longer the worlds police man, and we should turn towards defence rather than an attack mode.
Broadsides views do it for me, and I totally concur with his post.

Right that said I'm off back to Lil's or the gash barge its a little political in these here parts. :D :roll: :wink:
 
I may be wrong, I was once, but am I correct in thinking I've read an article somewhere that the forces are going to shrink in size to numbers that were last seen during the Boer war? you know, that time period in history when half the world was coloured in Pink.

Alot to be said for an Army full of Infantry regiments and a Navy full of fighting sailors. I just cannot see a modern day Corps of Commissioners with the calibre of men like the ones serving at Rorkes drift. It'll be interesting to see the septics take on the current unrest and simmering nastyness that's going to go pop over in NI. If there was ever a winner of the "me, myself and I" title it's the septics.
 
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