In at the deep end!

Discussion in 'Submariners' started by mugfaker, Jan 2, 2014.

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  1. mugfaker

    mugfaker Midshipman

    Hi Guys, My naval career was short and in the (beg pardon) the FAA. However, step son considers that I am the fount of all nautical knowledge. Here is his question, don't ask why he wants to know because he hasn't said!
    "Could early WWII submerged submarines gauge the depth of the sea they were in passively ie without the use of sonar or other technology which would betray their position to surface vessels?" I think he was asking about the depth below the boat, not the depth from the surface as I assume that pressure gauges would give that info anyway.

    I have been on either one or two Submarines, but both were alongside and definately not submerged. I can see that a guy standing on the bow with a line is out of the question (because I am fairly bright!) but I don't know how to answer him.

    Having been lurking for more than a few weeks, I do expect a variety of answers from fellow members. (be kind)

    I will appreciate any help.
    Mugfaker.
     
  2. SONAR-BENDER

    SONAR-BENDER War Hero

    Welcome Mug...... what a CRACKING first post! I have absolutely no idea and to be honest had never even considered it before. It is possible that they just stuck to well charted areas where there was ample water known (hoped!) to be below them.

    Is the lad in Mensa?
     
  3. pie.thatcher

    pie.thatcher New member

    In my day in boats (60's 70's ) they always seemed to work from charts and dead reckoning. Close inshore echo sounders were used but they would certainly give your position away. Could be that by now they have some super duper system that doesn't rely on transmiting. Greater and younger minds than me might know.
     
  4. WreckerL

    WreckerL War Hero

    I left in 2007 and it's still echo sounders inshore but much improved from early days, other wise it's still chart work, or WECDIS (electronic charts). Doesn't mean you always get it right, as we found out on Traf when someone moved Fladda Chuain and we left the bow array as the first instalment of an independent Scotlands SOSUS.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Topstop

    Topstop War Hero

    Good charts and snap soundings if no one was about and DR.
     
  6. Waspie

    Waspie War Hero

    Logic would dictate, chart and good old dead reckoning. (Navigation to the un-initiated!!) Sonar was in it's infancy in WW2 so the use of passive is simply a non starter and actively 'pinging' well just send a text saying here I am!!!!!

    I would say WW2 submarine skippers earned their salary in them that days!
     
  7. mugfaker

    mugfaker Midshipman

    Eeerrrm, Mensa? I will ask him some time! I gather it is to do with something highly technical and well beyond the comprehension of a lower deck airey fairy, a Computer simulation game? (my words not his)
     
  8. mugfaker

    mugfaker Midshipman

    I think that's basically the response I gave.
     
  9. Waspie

    Waspie War Hero

    Shows WAFU minds think alike!!! (Albeit 'pinger' aircrewman, nee Grubber!!!!!) :angel12:
     
  10. M3Maverik

    M3Maverik New member

    Good afternoon,

    It was my question that I put to my stepdad. The question came about from a Submarine simulation game called Silent Hunter 5, my older brother (52) was getting frustrated by not knowing the sea depth in the English channel. He would attempt to travel this route submerged and be detected by the pride of the British fleet. He would then emergency dive and and hit the sea bed. complaining that there was no way of knowing the depth beneath his hull and it was a stupid game. My response to him was often to say, do as I do and go round the north of Scotland, the route may be longer but safer. Apart from going past Scapa Flow, best done submerged at night if possible. It was my thought that back in 1939-1945 the only way of knowing depth of the sea currently in would from ocean charts? As anything else might reveal your position to the enemy (in this case the formidable British fleet).

    Many thanks

    Rik (aged 42 & a bit)
     
  11. WreckerL

    WreckerL War Hero

    To be honest I don't know of any Navy that sends boats on a dived transit of the Channel, far too shallow and busy. Before the fall of France U-boats used to take the long way round and would never risk the Channel. now I've said that someone's bound to come on and say "we did it in 19** on HMs/m ******" but I bet they didn't do it in the Dover Straits!
     
  12. SWS Fag

    SWS Fag Badgeman

    Lead on a rope ; )


    Posted from the Navy Net mobile app (Android / iOS)
     
  13. mugfaker

    mugfaker Midshipman

    While submerged? swinging it might be a bit...!
     
  14. mugfaker

    mugfaker Midshipman

    Just woke up, saw the wink!
     
  15. fishhead

    fishhead War Hero

    We only bothered with echo sounders while at harbour stations, the remainder of the time, as has already been suggested, we chose to believe the admiralty charts for the depth of water under the keel. I would suggest that a short burst on the sounder was unlikely to give a boats location away in WW2 as the quality of the sonars in those time was nowhere near as good as at present and even if they heard it deciding from which direction would have been very tricky.
     
  16. clanky

    clanky War Hero

    And which method did they use for HOT. Rule of twelvths?

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Navy Net - Rum Ration mobile app
     
  17. enry

    enry New member

    Charts have been pretty accurate for some years, you would have no electronic nav aids on first world war battleships and they seemed to turn up at the right place as did Nelson 100 years earlier. I always got by before GPS but did have echo sounder and radar.
     
  18. SONAR-BENDER

    SONAR-BENDER War Hero

    One word - ASTUTE!
     
  19. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    How did you measure depth under the keel with Radar?
     
  20. enry

    enry New member

    turned the boat upside down
     

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