Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

I'm in the Junior Navy - apparently!

trehorn

War Hero
The bosses daughter is on work experience in our office and when she found out that I was in the RNR she asked me what it was like to be in the "Junior Navy".

I took the opportunity to tell her a bit about the RNR, even showing some articles on the good deeds of the RNR on operations and she came back with "well it's still the junior navy though isn'[t it - it's not the proper navy".

Now I've been called allsorts of things by allsorts of people when they find out about my nautical tendancies but this hurt a little. I know the RNR isn't the "real" Navy and would never pretend otherwise but junior navy - please!
 

trelawney126

War Hero
The real problem lies with the RNR itself, I served with many RNR personnel, most of them didn't have any problems with what they did, and were only too glad to be at sea and serving in the same capacity as their fellow mariners. Then we had a first aid RNR tutor at Haslar, whose standard quote was. "Really Not, Required". Seldom did I ever hear of any derisory remarks about RNR from full time mariners.
 

Sumo

War Hero
The problem some of the public see the Reserve forces in the same way they see the Police special as not real police officers, but as cheaper paid part time gap fillers?

The Special Constabulary is the United Kingdom's part-time police force. It is made up of volunteer members of the public who when on duty wear a uniform and have full police powers. There are around 15,000 Specials serving with police forces across the UK, with plans to increase that to around 20,000 in time for the London Olympics in 2012.

It is only a perception, but people’s attitudes are had to change, so change the way you portray the RNR and do not come across as a sea cadet
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
In my opinion: The problem with the perception of the Royal Navy Reserve, as opposed to the Royal Marines Reserve, is quite simple and easy to resolve. They've already cracked the perceived stigma of having a uniform that unfathomably differed from the regular service, but...

Over the years the RNR has been under the cosh, struggling to justify it's continued existence and has rightly and cleverly made itself indispensable to the functioning of the Royal Navy by specialising in "niche" trades which are unique to the RNR, but largely only in a shore support role.

Right up to the SDSR, many thought it may well be up for the chop, but the reverse happened - the ministers see it as a cheap alternative to a retained service but don't appreciate it is not like the RMR or TA.

For starters they very, very rarely go to sea as there are very few transferable seagoing trades and those there are, take several years to reach trained status so they have a huge retention problem and people are leaving faster than we can recruit.

Before anyone claims "We can't take them to sea until they are trained" look no further than the 14 P2000's scattered around the country for the exclusive use of over 700 undergraduates, manned with over 100 full time RN personnel at a cost in excess of £5M a year. From that 700 undergraduates we expect to recruit less than 5% into the RN or RNR.

Remind me again how the URNU escaped the SDSR?
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
The Special Constabulary is the United Kingdom's part-time police force. It is made up of volunteer members of the public who when on duty wear a uniform and have full police powers. There are around 15,000 Specials serving with police forces across the UK, with plans to increase that to around 20,000 in time for the London Olympics in 2012.

Just had to ask - when you put the clocks back in your house at the weekend, did you accidentally put the year back too? :laughing3:
 

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
N-S, the most interesting thing I found about the ethos of the URNU (of which we have close links as we are affiliated to one of the craft) is that it is specifically NOT a recruiting tool for the RN. Instead, it supposedly develops the leaders of tomorrow using a practical nautical theme, and also reminds our young up-and-comers of the importance of a strong Navy to an island nation.

Best one I ever heard on the topic was an ex-student (they all are, eventually) who proudly boasted they were a snotty, until it was politely pointed out that they are all snottys so that was a basic entry level, not an achievement.
 

Rumrat

War Hero
I always found from personal experience that one of the problem with the RNR was the RN.
Ex regulars who instructed in the units seemed to be( in the main) there, for their sake, and not the RNR bods.
In the unit I served in the blokes were keen, and stand-fast the occasional twat, eager to learn anything you gave them.
I taught Seamanship and DC at Forward, when it was still in Broad street, during my spell as a PSI.
I was an anachronism due to my SQ at that time.
I was theoretically capable (being a light heavy boxer) to batter anyone who did not listen and fix them up afterwards as I was an MA.
Happy days.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
N-S, the most interesting thing I found about the ethos of the URNU (of which we have close links as we are affiliated to one of the craft) is that it is specifically NOT a recruiting tool for the RN. Instead, it supposedly develops the leaders of tomorrow using a practical nautical theme, and also reminds our young up-and-comers of the importance of a strong Navy to an island nation.

Best one I ever heard on the topic was an ex-student (they all are, eventually) who proudly boasted they were a snotty, until it was politely pointed out that they are all snottys so that was a basic entry level, not an achievement.

I appreciate what the ethos of the URNU is all about as I was Coxswain (2i/c) at Oxford URNU for a few years, thoroughly enjoyed it.

But...I find it very hard to justify the resources and cost to the taxpayer of a public relations exercise which is basically a university society of no realistic or demonstrable practical purpose.

I'd be interested to hear how many civilian "movers and shakers" in Government, the Treasury or Defence with former URNU experience have 'delivered the goods' in return.

Hmmn, let me guess...erm, none.
 
I appreciate what the ethos of the URNU is all about as I was Coxswain (2i/c) at Oxford URNU for a few years, thoroughly enjoyed it.

But...I find it very hard to justify the resources and cost to the taxpayer of a public relations exercise which is basically a university society of no realistic or demonstrable practical purpose.

I'd be interested to hear how many civilian "movers and shakers" in Government, the Treasury or Defence with former URNU experience have 'delivered the goods' in return.

Hmmn, let me guess...erm, none.

My bold - it provides 14 Commands to Lts/Lt Cdrs at very little cost, allows for the development of some of our best Junior Officers, is a lot of fun and 'resets' them after some fairly hefty jobs for 6 years.

I know that might not be the answer you are looking for, but there are some very real dangers in providing people with their first Command experience in a T23 or T45.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
My bold - it provides 14 Commands to Lts/Lt Cdrs at very little cost, allows for the development of some of our best Junior Officers, is a lot of fun and 'resets' them after some fairly hefty jobs for 6 years.

I know that might not be the answer you are looking for, but there are some very real dangers in providing people with their first Command experience in a T23 or T45.

Agreed, but why take undergraduates with a 95% probability of "zero return" to sea in preference to those that joined the RNR but don't go to sea?

...and another thing.

The RNR are part of the UK's military coastal defence organisation and can act as an aid to a civilian power in the event of national disaster or terrorist activity, right? Wrong.

When was the RNR last involved in disaster relief planning with the local authorities or when did they last exercise with emergency services?

What do they do again?
 

trehorn

War Hero
I always found from personal experience that one of the problem with the RNR was the RN.
Ex regulars who instructed in the units seemed to be( in the main) there, for their sake, and not the RNR bods.
In the unit I served in the blokes were keen, and stand-fast the occasional twat, eager to learn anything you gave them.
I taught Seamanship and DC at Forward, when it was still in Broad street, during my spell as a PSI.
I was an anachronism due to my SQ at that time.
I was theoretically capable (being a light heavy boxer) to batter anyone who did not listen and fix them up afterwards as I was an MA.
Happy days.

As I always tell the guys and gals in our unit - every course/unit etc has a c*nt, the important thing is making sure it isn't you. Likewise if you don't know who the c*nt is then it probably is you :thumbleft:
 

soleil

War Hero
The bosses daughter is on work experience in our office and when she found out that I was in the RNR she asked me what it was like to be in the "Junior Navy".

I took the opportunity to tell her a bit about the RNR, even showing some articles on the good deeds of the RNR on operations and she came back with "well it's still the junior navy though isn'[t it - it's not the proper navy".

Now I've been called allsorts of things by allsorts of people when they find out about my nautical tendancies but this hurt a little. I know the RNR isn't the "real" Navy and would never pretend otherwise but junior navy - please!

How old is she, Trehorn? She might not be terribly well-informed, you know. I suspect that she is about 15 - if you ask the average 15 year old girl about the Navy, let alone the RNR, most of them actually know very little and what they do know is probably third-hand because they once knew a girl who had a friend who knew a bloke in the Navy etc.
 

Sumo

War Hero
How old is she, Trehorn? She might not be terribly well-informed, you know. I suspect that she is about 15 - if you ask the average 15 year old girl about the Navy, let alone the RNR, most of them actually know very little and what they do know is probably third-hand because they once knew a girl who had a friend who knew a bloke in the Navy etc.

Are come on Soleil, the man has had his pride and ass kicked by the bosses daughter, so don’t big him up and make him feel better, just kick him whilst he is down, and let him suffer like a man or don’t the RNR do that either?:pirate::pirate::toothy8::toothy8:
 
C

Circus

Guest
Could the URNU's benefit from more from being more of an active recruiting tool though? The UOTC follow a military syllabus which allows a more seamless transfer into the TA; I think they also have the option of being awarded the military or civilian equivalent qualification. The way they are structured also allows their final years to complete TA modules which they can take forward. The UAS follow a flying skills syllabus which gives them recorded, practical flying experience which they can then can also take forward; for example the Q101 form for AIB asks for any flying experience in detail. However- what do you get from the URNU in terms of practical, military qualifications? Errrr..... CMI Level 5 is available but again the UOTC are able to claim the relative military qualification. Could it be possible for the URNU do to this? Is there even a Naval equivalent to CMI?

The URNU follow the RYA Yachtmaster syllabus that students are able to qualify in but it is not compulsory and the packs are provided at your own expensive (heavily subsidised). Why not make it compulsory? We do have 'URNU task books' to fill out but what good are these to a RNR unit? Would they care if I took my task book along to a joining interview even? But then CO's are faced with the contradiction of not appearing to be a recruiting tool whilst providing students with a fulfilling experience. What if the RYA Yachtmaster was compulsory and you failed? 'Don't let the door hit you on the way out fella' or 'never mind shipmate just crack on as usual'. But then they don’t want to scare people away by acting as if the URNU is another part of university- where you have lectures and exams. The URNU is seen as an escape from that. Part of me says fair enough but then part of me well actually so ******* what. You get paid, you wear the uniform, you bloody well do something useful whilst part of the unit. You get so many privileges, so much time and effort spent on you the least you can is gain something for YOURSELF out of 2-3 years of being in the URNU. The counter argument is- ‘just because I’m in the URNU doesn’t mean I want to have a career in the maritime/nautical field. But what about those that do? Does it matter if it’s in the RN, RNR, RFA, civilian shipping companies etc? And if you don’t go into a maritime organization afterwards? Then you have just gained a subsidised qualification that can be used for your own personal pleasure.

I can’t speak for other units but mine was pretty good at getting people to sea- dates were advertised in advanced and the Coxswain was pretty clued up on balancing people on how much they had done throughout the year to make it fair for everyone.

Would it be possible for the URNUs and RNR units to share hulls? Don’t know, I’m not qualified to say so. I guess it would be hell of a commitment required from the URNU COs and maybe remove them completely from the units. But are they being employed as Captain HMS... or OiC... URNU? I understand the dual command part but with extra commitment would this still be possible? I am not saying this means the RNR should not be going to sea in P2000! 2 Captains per hull? RNR trained COs?

I don't profess to be completely clued up on the workings of either to UOTC or UAS so I hold my hands up if I have got anything wrong. For what it is worth I think the university military units are fantastic. I have done things with them that most other students societies could not offer- and free to boot. We consistently raise large amounts of money for local and military charities over the year and take part in the annual November ceremonies. I had a brilliant time and the skills and leadership experience I gained have really helped me.

I have heard of countless examples or students getting up people’s noses by acting like cocks in uniform by thinking they are more than they are. But when you tell students they are honourary junior officers and give them the privileges that go along with that (staying in the wardroom, midshipman pay, officer uniform etc) you are bound to get the odd twat who goes too far. Most people I knew where incredibly humble of their ‘status’ and would never dream of doing some of the things I heard about. A shame when it happens but there you go.

I have just written down all this as it came into my head. Whilst I like the idea of URNU to RNR being made more of a seamless option would the RNR even want this? Could it even be done?

Does the URNU have to accept that in light of the SDSR and the general economy that they HAVE to be more of a recruiting tool than they are and more ‘militaristic’ in their approach to students? Or do we say well for a few million we get to teach undergraduates about the need for and about the Navy, fly the white ensign where big ships can’t normally go and provide Lieutenants with a command position before they go onto PWO training?
 

Sharkey

Banned
This is the bosses little ray of sunshine, fall out with her and it could be the big issue, slip her one and you could be 2i/c, your choice
 

broadside

War Hero
The other "benefit" offered to the RN by the URNU (and please don't challenge me on the cost/value for money equation because it doesn't stack up) is the ability to give young (high potential) officers a "command" they would otherwise not be able to have as part of the grooming for greater things process.

Addendum
Sorry - I posted before reading Alfred the Great's response (which makes my contribution somewhat redundant.
 
Last edited:

Sumo

War Hero
This is the bosses little ray of sunshine, fall out with her and it could be the big issue, slip her one and you could be 2i/c, your choice
Sharkey
so what you saying is, Trehorn got a kicking from his bosses daughter, and now
I am going to get it from the bosses little ray of sunshine? Oh happy days and
joy, and slip her what? is she bribable?
 

Rumrat

War Hero
How old is she, Trehorn? She might not be terribly well-informed, you know. I suspect that she is about 15 - if you ask the average 15 year old girl about the Navy, let alone the RNR, most of them actually know very little and what they do know is probably third-hand because they once knew a girl who had a friend who knew a bloke in the Navy etc.


Jimmy Savile?
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
MoD_RSS Attorney General appoints new Junior Treasury Counsel MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Appointment of Three Further Standing Junior Counsel to the Advocate General for Scotland MoD News 0
MoD_RSS News story: Apply to the Attorney General’s London A, B or C Panel of junior counsel MoD News 0
Trainer Junior Rates Mess Images The Quarterdeck 31
Cap-H junior rates mess/RFA RFA 11
Guns Junior Officers and real secondary duties The Fleet 1
DemobJob Junior Surveillance Operative - SE London - £25,000 The Afterlife - Resettlement and Jobs 0
DemobJob Junior IT Field Support Engineer - Leeds The Afterlife - Resettlement and Jobs 0
DemobJob Technical Author (Junior) - Bedfordshire - £28,000 The Afterlife - Resettlement and Jobs 0
DemobJob Junior Hardware Engineer - High Wycombe - £25k to £35k The Afterlife - Resettlement and Jobs 0
Z Junior Rates' Leadership UPO/Careers Office 40
soleil Telegraph: "Millions 'Wasted' On Junior Army Recruits, Report Claims" Current Affairs 0
trelawney126 Nautical advice to the Junior Service The Gash Barge 4
S Why am I a Junior Member? Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 15
I Junior Leadership Course Portsmouth ! SCC and URNU 1
MoD_RSS Junior Ratings move into their new home at RNAS Culdrose Current Affairs 12
Jimpy RN ranks junior? The Fleet 57
finknottle Cameron WWII 'junior partner' gaffe The Gash Barge 23
2_deck_dash Another reason to mock and ridicule the junior service Diamond Lil's 14
T Junior Ranks should get £6K pay rise to boost morale - Clegg Current Affairs 35
Naval_Gazer New website - Life in a Blue Suit (as a junior officer) Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 29
T Junior Rates to Join Ferret? Royal Naval Reserve (RNR) 16
N Unhappy Junior Ratings The Fleet 12
N Junior Training Establishments History 60
M Questions regarding the Royal Navy Medical Officer Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 2
Blue_Water_Jack Navy News December 2020 The Quarterdeck 0
MoD_RSS Statutory Instrument on Royal Navy Police enforcement powers MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Red letter day for Royal Navy in Scotland MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Royal Navy warships monitor significant Russian presence close to UK waters MoD News 0
J Navy Lies The Quarterdeck 21
higthepig Navy news November 2020 The Quarterdeck 0
MoD_RSS World-class autonomous minehunters to protect Royal Navy MoD News 1
AccessHeritage Royal Navy's Use of The Infernal Machine History 19
MoD_RSS Royal Navy warship sails into Arctic Circle for High North operation MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK Royal Navy concludes first joint exercises with Egypt MoD News 0
N royal navy medical appeal alcohol Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 4
higthepig Navy news October 2020 The Quarterdeck 0
mikh Navy Net asks for your consent to use your personal data to: Bloody Computers 9
MoD_RSS Royal Navy seizes over 450kg in the largest methamphetamine drug bust in the Middle East MoD News 0
soleil FB: National Museum Of The Royal Navy: 215th Anniversary Of The Battle Of Trafalgar History 2
soleil FB: Royal Navy And Royal Marines Charity - Hosting Your Own Trafalgar Night/Pickle Night Dinner History 2
soleil Express: "Submarine Sparks Panic In Scotland As Onlookers Mistake Royal Navy Exercise For Fire" Submariners 2
sampost Jubilee Sailing Trust announces pioneering collaboration with the Royal Navy Sports and Adventure Training 2
soleil Royal Navy Recipients In The Queen's Birthday Honours List 2020 Current Affairs 2
soleil FB: Royal Navy And Royal Marines Charity: World Uckers Championship 2020 The Fleet 1
soleil The Times: "Life On The Ocean Wave: The Royal Navy Photographic Awards" The Fleet 1
soleil BBC: "HMS Queen Elizabeth: On board The Royal Navy's New Aircraft Carrier" The Fleet 0
MoD_RSS Royal Navy seize £160 million worth of drugs in the Caribbean MoD News 1
higthepig Navy news September 2020 The Quarterdeck 0
soleil NWE Mail: "Barrow Built Submarine Becomes Inaugural Winner Of A New Royal Navy Commendation" Submariners 2
Similar threads


















































Latest Threads

Top