ATTN:
@huwshpis @WreckerL @dapperdunn @Dredd @alfred_the_great and anyone else who wants to join in.
Hi All,
Sorry for the huge delay in responding to your comments. I have been very busy with moving to a different city.
House Keeping
I have decided to reply to all of you in one big comment rather than doing separate replies to your individual comments. I will tag/@mention some people so that everyone knows when I'm referencing a specific comment, but the entire reply is addressed to everyone so please read all of it. Also, I have written some words in all caps to add emphases. I know some people consider the use of all caps to be the equivalent of shouting rudely, but I promise that it's not my intention to shout at anyone.
@WreckerL: Thanks for your reply, I was pretty sure that Midshipmen could not give any orders but were addressed as Sir as a courtesy. Are you sure Midshipmen did not receive any salutes? Wikipedia disputes this, this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subordinate_officer#United_Kingdom states that subordinate officers were entitled to salutes. I don't take Wikipedia as gospel, but the statement regarding salutes does have a newspaper article referenced as a source. I will point out that the whole article is confusing because it lumps Midshipmen and Acting Sub-Lieutenants together as subordinate officers (because neither have received their commissions yet), and at the same time, it makes sweeping statements that NO subordinate officers could give orders, and that ALL subordinate officers were entitled to salutes. Part of that article has to be rubbish, because as you and I both know, Acting Sub-Lieutenants most definitely COULD give orders, otherwise their rank/title of Acting Sub-Lieutenant would be meaningless. Nonetheless, given that some of the article had citations, I can't help wondering whether the part implying that Midshipmen WERE entitled to salutes might be true. Unfortunately, the source they reference doesn't seem to be available online. They also mention The Queen's Regulations for the Royal Navy, but I'm unable to find an online copy of the relevant edition for the time period. If you (or anyone else) could shed any more light on this matter, I'd really appreciate it.
Lastly, you (and others) have clearly explained that Midshipmen could not GIVE any orders, I'd just like to clarify whether they TOOK orders from ratings (Leading Hand or above); or were officers the only ones who could give them orders after they graduated from B.R.N.C.?
@dapperdunn: Thanks for your reply, I was aware that Midshipmen used to have no commission at all, but I was unsure as to whether their status as subordinate officers entitled them to give orders.
@Dredd: As far as I am aware
@alfred_the_great is right, today Midshipmen are considered to be fully commissioned officers, just like they are in the Royal New Zealand Navy (R.N.Z.N.) and the Royal Australian Navy (R.A.N.) (see background to thread below). Thanks for your reply though.
Background To Why I Posted This Thread
Some of you may be wondering why I am so interested in/obsessed with the precise protocols regarding the authority and treatment of Midshipmen under an old system that is no longer used. The answer is twofold. Firstly, I'm planning to write a space science fiction story, and being a naval enthusiast, I want the ship's company to have proper ranks and rates. Over the years, I've been very irritated with popular space sci-fi's (like Star Trek, Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica) which focus far too much on commissioned officers at the expense of enlisted personnel and/or get other key details about rank and rate structures horribly wrong!
The second part of my answer is as follows: Having decided to have a real naval structure in my story, I initially decided to use the ranks and rates of the Royal New Zealand Navy (since I'm from New Zealand). However, a friend of mine who is a retired Royal New Zealand Navy Rating can't remember the protocol around how Midshipmen were treated and the level of authority (or lack thereof) they possessed prior to the law change giving Midshipmen commissions. He and I think that the modern practice of giving Midshipmen commissions immediately upon graduation from the New Zealand equivalent of B.R.N.C. is rather foolish, so I don't want to use that system in my story. Hence, here I am asking all of you about how things used to be done in the Royal Navy.
Thank you all very much for your time, interest and help.
