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If not in Syria when and where are we prepared to fight?

When should we now be prepared to fight?

  • Direct attacks on Britain/British people only

    Votes: 8 80.0%
  • Humanitarian interventions

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • Ideological Cold War style battle

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Strategic threats

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Never

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
The debate of being the 'World Police' has been going on since Palmerston vs Disraeli but frankly if we CAN act surely there's a moral imperative to do so?

No, that doesn't follow at all. In the same way that science has an epithet - just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

And there is no such a thing as a moral absolute. If only it were that simple.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Jaggers, the times you were refer to were a different world. UK Plc had enough to contend with, with all those johnny foreigners whose countries we'd taken over having the audacity to rebel and want their countries back, particularly in India. Plus, after WW1, not many nations wanted to a repeat of the slaughter and relied on the toothless tiger that was the League of Nations.
 

scouse

War Hero
There could been a line, 100+ places (including Syria) have signed up to saying chemical weapons are a step too far, and maybe if enough countries say we should dish out a slap, then if we are in the club, maybe we should be obliged to show support in whatever way we feel we can justify
not so Syria is one of just five countries that have not signed a global treaty banning chemical weapons. Israel and Myanmar have signed the convention but not ratified it, while Angola, Egypt, North Korea, South Sudan and Syria have done neither.

QUOTE Chemical weapons were first outlawed at the 1899 Hague Convention. But the prohibition didn’t stick. They were widely used in World War I, and Germany even argued that they were more humane than, say, a bayonet to the gut. But the ban was affirmed in the 1925 Geneva Protocol, and in World War II neither the Allies nor the Axis deployed chemical weapons on the battlefield. The ban has more or less endured since. Only a handful of countries -- including Syria -- have refused to sign the treaty prohibiting their use.
 
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jaggers

Lantern Swinger
Jaggers, the times you were refer to were a different world. UK Plc had enough to contend with, with all those johnny foreigners whose countries we'd taken over having the audacity to rebel and want their countries back, particularly in India. Plus, after WW1, not many nations wanted to a repeat of the slaughter and relied on the toothless tiger that was the League of Nations.

Yes, but look how that turned out, ignoring the problem until it was too late?
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Maybe Europe did have it's head in the sand in those days but you have to look to the past to understand the inaction in context. There was no national or political will to get involved in other countries problems, besides which there was no instant footage of atrocities spread all over the media, just what was reported in the press and on the radio so the general public were probaly not as aware of global goings on as they are today. These days Pax Brittanica is just an entry in an Encyclopedia.
 

Sharkey

Banned
not so Syria is one of just five countries that have not signed a global treaty banning chemical weapons. Israel and Myanmar have signed the convention but not ratified it, while Angola, Egypt, North Korea, South Sudan and Syria have done neither.

I stand corrected, sure I'd read or heard it somewhere but hey ho, I'm not as smart as I try to make out
 

fishhead

War Hero
True, but it shouldnt be a case of not doing anything because you are frightened of the repercussions of your actions, and I prefer, if you are up to your neck in shit and someone throws a turd, do you duck.
The trick is not to get to the point where you are up to your neck in shit. Look before you leap???????????
 

Pontius

War Hero
if memory recalls they shot down one of our Harriers but thankfully UN peacekeepers rescued the pilot?

Naughty memory. He wasn't 'rescued' but he did manage to make his way through a friendly contact and eventually join up with the SAS who were directing the CAS mission he was on at the time. Things got a bit too hot for even the unshaven ones and they decided to leg it. Unfortunately, this also meant legging it for our intrepid hero and SHAR pilots are not best known for their SAS selection physical attribute. The final demeaning part of the 'rescue' was being airlifted out by Crab Air :-(

I suppose one could argue the SAS were peacekeepers but as they were directing SHAR attacks at the time I don't think they'd like that angry9:

Okay, enough of my chaff laying, back to Syria......
 
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Dredd

War Hero
Super Moderator
Aye, and the fanny had the cheek to say that the consequences of inaction could be worse than if action, any action, is taken.

Oh really Tony? How did Iraq work out for you mate? You must be firm friends with the locals when you bimble in nowadays as their Peace Ambassador.

Prize Prick of the highest order. Smarmy, slimy cnut.
 

danny

War Hero
For me I think it was a sad day when the vote was lost in the commons. I do believe that the UK should be a power for good. And stopping chemical weapons being used could only be a good thing (and i say this for either side rebel or government)
To say we should just accept we are just a european power the same a Germany or Belgium in my mind is only a bad thing.

Thats my opinion and I cant be arsed having to debate my opinion so if you disagree just accept its different as I have yours. Just wanted to add my 2p.
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Book Reviewer
When the PM conducted his address to Parliament there was a real lack of strategic intent in the way the whole thing was set up. The purpose was to react to a war crime but the Commons was actually reacting to strategic woolliness. You can't sort out a military plan unless you know what the political objectives are. Military tools are ill suited to achieving political aims. What is the politcal objective that military action is meant to be enabling? A lack of clarity about the political objectives would seem to have created distruct in Britain's enthusiasm for action.
 

Taloolah

Banned
Many distinct points on this thread but nearly all refer to what the UK should or shouldn't do. Britain recognises it is not a colonial power any more yet the heart doesn't seem to have caught up.This is not our gig, it's not our mess and it's high time Britain learned to step back.We always seem to wring our hands about the world's ills without considering the size,economy,population and troubles within our own Kingdom or the lack of action by other countries.

I've asked this before - if it's a Middle East problem and they lay claim to fairness and compassion within their belief system (I'll keep religious vocab. out of it ), why don't the Arab League step in to do more than mop up the flow of refugees ? It could be that they are taking steps but we hear little of it in the news. Iran especially appears passive and probably the best placed to do something.

If there are going to be consequences to this conflict, let's at least ensure we're not in the immediate firing line-
there has been little grace for our presence over the past two decades, just bodybags and unwarranted heartache.
 

Blackrat

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
To be honest, i don't we should be involved on the ground. We just don't have the manpower for this sort of thing at the moment. I do believe that there are other things we can do though. I don't agree with the use of chemical weapons and something should be done, but why should we supply the men and material to do this? America should go alone for once if they're itching for a pagga.
 
I think the salient point with Syria is that whoever did release the CW, it was an internal matter harming nobody (as far as we know) outside that Country. Additionally, CW isn't illegal in Syria so no international laws have been directly broken. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it morally right, of course. I think once we start armed conflicts to enforce morality (and different cultures have different views on morality), we are buggered.

Having said that, if the UN decrees that international law has been broken, we should justify our place on the Security Council by contributing to the agreed response. Ah the UN; the saviour of the civilised world. That's the UN that seems simply concerned by establishing what the nature of the CW was with little interest in establishing who released it.
 

fishhead

War Hero
In answer to Taloolah the Arab League are not going to be anyone's saviour in Syria as they can't agree who they should support. Iran, for instance, stands firmly behind the Syrian government while Saudi Arabia is the biggest backer of the rebel army. So why the some of the western nations think that sticking their oar in is going to solve any problems I don't know.
As I've alluded to previously in the Syria threads it is total folly to go into this without having the slightest idea as to what difference, if any, it will make.
 

bacon28

Badgeman
the house of common's voting no was this country's finest hour for a long time......we are/were nothing more than a puppet of the US......America seem's to think it can help syria by killing more syrian's,they have for a long time been ignorant of foreign country's,and now the world is seeing that......they are on their own....IMHO
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
One thing that seems to have come about by default, was the rather intelligent media question of the sabre-rattling John Kerry: "What must Syria do to avoid to prevent a military strike?"

"Surrender your chemical weapon stockpile" he glibly replies, as an off the cuff aside.

"OK" Says Syria.

"Bollocks" thinks the US warmongering ********. "How can we possibly backtrack?"

"Hmmm, let's make a wholly unrealistic resolution timeframe, that ought to do it"
 
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