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IED Disposal

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
ECM works better for most devices due to the way they are used. The terrain is not particularly conducive to employment of heavy armour, and also it restricts tactical flexibility where we're operating. Finally there are literally hundreds of the bloody things out there, and a flail tank is limited in where it can go in the region.
 
Army have that fancy Trojan Thingie I recall. In service with RE but as Twiglet said, its limited in the areas it can clear (mountains is clearly a no no) band a huge target. Big stinking Chally 2 based vehicle I recall
 
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Spidiver

War Hero
ECM works better for most devices due to the way they are used. The terrain is not particularly conducive to employment of heavy armour, and also it restricts tactical flexibility where we're operating. Finally there are literally hundreds of the bloody things out there, and a flail tank is limited in where it can go in the region.

What utter shite!!!!! PT, I don't know what the feck your trade is, but it certainly isnt EOD orientated..or if it is....yer fecked!!!
 

Waspie

War Hero
Army have that fancy Trojan Thingie I recall. In service with RE but as Twiglet said, its limited in the areas it can clear (mountains is clearly a no no) band a huge target. Big stinking Chally 2 based vehicle I recall

Isn't Trojan the 'thingy' for laying temp roads!!!! A CH2 Hull with hydraulic fork for laying tubes down.

Update, Trojan - armoured engineer vehicle for digging ditches and supporting troops in a civil engineer type roll.

I thought the mine clearance 'thingy' was 'Python'. A tracked hull which deployed a snaking coil of what I could only describe a det cord which then explodes along the track it falls thereby clearing a path.
 
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wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Ladies, handbags down!

Spidiver & P_T; there are oddles of varieties of IED, with actuation mechanisms of again, many varieties. I think P_T was trying to make the point that whizzing about in Trojan (or similar) isn't always practical because of terrain and the opportunity it presents to EF. Plus (and I don't know) we probably haven't got that many of those vehicle in Th and if we did I would imagine their support requirements are pretty huge. So we have ECM supported by physical detection and physical disruption, as opposed to concentrating on blasting/thrashing "safe" paths everywhere.

The line that I suspect Spidiver would take is that there are certainly instances were physical measures are required and are more appropriate, possibly for the more crude IED (of which I guess they are the overwhelming majority). Whereas ECM has its place for the more sophisticated devices.

I sat in the back of a C-IED workshop a while back (accompanying my Boss), just stunned by the complexity (and the simplicity) but more by the sheer ingenuity and effort all designed to maim or kill. Oddly made me think of a computer virus; someone creates a basic template, it works; someone else adds a bit, it works but the A/V doesn't get it; then the A/V is updated and then someone amends the latter virus and so forth. We're pretty inventive at ******* things up
 
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seafarer1939

War Hero
I have no knowledge at all about disarming these things other than I could never do it and I'm full of admiration for them and that widow who is refusing to accept the alleged cover up.
I never did understand why IED's were not blown up in situ rather than risk an operators life.
I understand the need to see how they are made but if we are so short of these operators with them being killed,is it worth it?
No!is my opinion or are we,as I suspect,looking for Iranian involvement?
If a remote machine cannot uncover the thing then blow the fecker and to hell with any collateral damage,we'll have to pay for a new house but which is more important?
I may have been different in NI but this is mostly desert so why take the risk.
The change is welcome.
 
Isn't Trojan the 'thingy' for laying temp roads!!!! A CH2 Hull with hydraulic fork for laying tubes down.

Update, Trojan - armoured engineer vehicle for digging ditches and supporting troops in a civil engineer type roll.

I thought the mine clearance 'thingy' was 'Python'. A tracked hull which deployed a snaking coil of what I could only describe a det cord which then explodes along the track it falls thereby clearing a path.

Aye Python has greater capability but is actually the trailer and deployment gear. Trojan also has Mine clearance capability but Python is indeed the more efficient method if time is on your side.

TROJAN Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers - British Army Website
Trojan (vehicle) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Python Minefield Breaching System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once had pleasure of being on an exercise involving the things during my last year with the TA. Titan, the mobile bridge vehicle is awesome too :) People may remember the vehicles from when that twunt Clarkson got chased around one of the training areas in an EVO
 
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Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
My comments were based on recently going through OPTAG and seen what IED procedures are in place, and also deploying to theatre. The flail tank theory works if you have lots of them, and need to clear a minefield or some other swathe of large ground with devices in it.

In Afghanistan, the key problems are the lack of suitable terrain for armour – in the green zone you are hugely restricted in where you can place your armour. This means either channelling (vv bad) or back to doing it on foot. If the vehicle is channelled, then the chances are that Terry will put together a large secondary device off the flail path and then take the vehicle out. This means you’ve got to put as many guys forward to do side searches as you do looking front. The other problem is the lack of armour (the Army has 65 Trojan type vehicles in total) and the restrictions that would come on where we could operate as a result of this.

The Taleban are a hugely adaptable foe – they know what they are doing when it comes to handling IEDs and we’re seeing immensely complex engagements where you have multiple IEDs coming into play. Its not as simple as advancing a tank along a track, you may find IED fields, secondary devices buried off to one side, multiple types which can go off in different ways and so on. It’s an incredibly difficult and bloody business and while the idea ‘buy a flail tank’ has been discussed (and I’ve been in some meetings of that nature), the answer is always the same – its simply not the answer to the problem.
 

Spidiver

War Hero
So apart from me, is there anyone else on this thread who has actually held an IED licence or been an instructor at an EOD school...Thought not!!
The head shed in theatre can't decide if they want area and route clearance, or investigation and explotation, two very different disciplines requiring very different approches.
Saving money has taken priority over saving lives...glad I'm out of it, when the head of the army's IED branch resigned over the way things were going, you know the bean counters have won !!!
 

frogman007

War Hero
So apart from me, is there anyone else on this thread who has actually held an IED licence or been an instructor at an EOD school...Thought not!!
The head shed in theatre can't decide if they want area and route clearance, or investigation and explotation, two very different disciplines requiring very different approches.
Saving money has taken priority over saving lives...glad I'm out of it, when the head of the army's IED branch resigned over the way things were going, you know the bean counters have won !!!

Yes me Spider!! Python has been used in Afghan. It was used in 2001 when they were clearing an area for a runway. Result-it flicked/lobbed all the ordnance to another area, causing the search teams and the operators more work. It should be used for battle EOD only ie "get the f******* troops through there now!!". I love the fact that people do an OPTAG course and get instructed by more than likely an non EOD instructor and become experts. If however you do the proper OPTAG and go to Lydd you get the RLC's perspective only on it.
 
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