I would never have guessed

#2
Defence minister Bob Ainsworth said the forces were achieving "our highest priority - success on operations".
Which means welfare and equipment in all it's forms is a lower priority.

Just what I would expect a ******** to say.
 
#3
Call me paranoid but I believe the socialist Labour old guard let Blare pursue his crusades in the sure knowledge that it would cripple the Services. They tried hard enough to destroy it from the outside and failed. By a move worthy of Sun Tzu, they've pushed and starved it to the point where it will implode.
 
#4
chockhead819 said:
that morale is low. Why join up when pay is crap, I was in my local AFCO & a lad was going to join up but didn't want to take a pay cut!
They are also going to reduce the council tax for those out & about by 25%, IMHO it should be zero!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7211901.stm

When I joined up my pay went from £32 per week to £9 per fortnight.IT took nearly four year before I overtook were I would have been but from then on Iwas quids in. :money: :money:
 
#5
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Call me paranoid but I believe the socialist Labour old guard let Blare pursue his crusades in the sure knowledge that it would cripple the Services. They tried hard enough to destroy it from the outside and failed. By a move worthy of Sun Tzu, they've pushed and starved it to the point where it will implode.
Interestingly enough, I reached the same conclusion some time ago. Today's nonsense from the MOD press office merely affirms this.
 

McCloggie

Lantern Swinger
#6
I was at university at the same time as Blair, Brown and all the other cronies. Not at the same uni but we came across each other.

They might be "New Labour" now but they were all on what was known as the "Broad Left" in their student days. These were the guys that made studebt union policy to support terrorists and send student union funds to these organisations. (Allegedly!!!)

Have they changed? No, of course not. They had to agree that their economic policy was wrong but deep down they are still the same animals - anti forces, anti-establishment, pro-third world, pro-imigration (more votes there boys!).

I really am becoming an old fart!

McC
 
#9
McCloggie said:
I was at university at the same time as Blair, Brown and all the other cronies. Not at the same uni but we came across each other.

They might be "New Labour" now but they were all on what was known as the "Broad Left" in their student days. These were the guys that made studebt union policy to support terrorists and send student union funds to these organisations. (Allegedly!!!)

Have they changed? No, of course not. They had to agree that their economic policy was wrong but deep down they are still the same animals - anti forces, anti-establishment, pro-third world, pro-imigration (more votes there boys!).

I really am becoming an old fart!

McC

You may be an old fart , but i'll agree with you , they hate the armed forces ,
 
#10
Passed-over_Loggie said:
Call me paranoid but I believe the socialist Labour old guard let Blare pursue his crusades in the sure knowledge that it would cripple the Services. They tried hard enough to destroy it from the outside and failed. By a move worthy of Sun Tzu, they've pushed and starved it to the point where it will implode.
Would that be the Socialist Old Guard who fought in the Spanish civil War and WW11? They hate the Armed Forces I read, what a load of shite.
 
#12
Ah, Mr finknottle; later than I would have guessed.

I hate using Wiki but this is a straight lift on Socialism with Pacifism.

There was strong anti-war sentiment in Western Europe during the 19th century. Many socialist groups and movements were antimilitarist, arguing that war by its nature was a type of governmental coercion of the working class for the benefit of capitalist elites. French socialist pacifist leader Jean Jaurès's assassination on July 31, 1914 was followed by the socialist Second International's dissolution into chauvinism and militarism as international socialist groups supported their respective nations in war. Nevertheless many groups protested that war, including the traditional peace churches, the Woman's Peace Party which was organized in 1915 and led by noted reformer Jane Addams and the International Committee of Women for Permanent Peace (ICWPP), also organized in 1915.[7] Other groups included the American Union Against Militarism, the Fellowship of Reconciliation, and the American Friends Service Committee
Is it a coincidence that more recent Pacifists have been found inside the Labour and Communist Parties? The brotherhood of Workers exploited as cannon fodder for the owning and ruling classes?

The Spanish Civil War and the 2nd World War must have been a bit of a bugger for the Socialists. A direct conflict of principle; except it could be reconciled as the People against Fascism. They weren't necessarily fighting for their parent State and had certainly done little to prepare for such.

Let's look at that bastion of Socialism, the Fabian Society, http://nord.twu.net/acl/revisionism.html ;

What is the Fabian Society?

The Fabian Society was created in 1884 after a suicide note left by Derby Fabian Henry Hutchinson also left 10,000 British pounds to the Fabians "for propaganda and other purposes." British Fabian socialism was created to promote international communism and free trade with a friendlier face. Unlike Marx's open and violent revolutionary agenda, the Fabian's agenda was to quietly infiltrate and re-direct established governments. The Fabians were instrumental in creating the Peace Movement, which is the perfect antithesis to violent expansionism. Fabians also helped establish the International Court at the Hague. The Fabians designed the first League of Nations (the precursor to the United Nations). Fabian influence on the creation of the U.N. is no secret, either. While many Marxist revolutions followed the prescription for violence (Russia, China, Cuba, etc.) others, like the U.S., were infiltrated under the Fabian model for "universal brotherhood and peace." Today the Fabian socialist model dominates in all global political movements.
A prominant member of the Fabians was our 1923 Prime Minister, Ramsay MacDonald http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRmacdonald.htm .

Like many socialists, MacDonald was a pacifist and was unwilling to support Britain's involvement in the First World War.
Disarmament and the United States of Europe (October 1929) http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1929/10/disarm.htm .

How Can Europe Be United?

Briand senses the need of improving the historical lot of 350 million Europeans who are the hearers of highest civilization but who find it impossible to live through a single century without a dozen wars and revolutions. For the sake of pacifying our planet, MacDonald has crossed the Atlantic. On the agenda are the United States of Europe, disarmament, freedom of trade, peace. Capitalist diplomacy everywhere is cooking up a pacifist stew. Peoples of Europe, peoples of the world get out big spoons to swallow it with.

Why all this pother? After all, aren’t the Socialists in power in the most important countries in Europe, or else preparing to assume power? Yes, that is just why! It is already apparent that Briand’s plan and MacDonald’s plan pursue the “pacification†of mankind from diametrically opposite directions. Briand wants to unify Europe as a defensive measure against America. MacDonald wants to earn the gratitude of America by helping her oppress Europe. Two trains are rushing to meet one another in order to save the passengers from – trainwreck.
I say again, the buggers are still in there.
 
#13
Odd don't you think that all those Socialist ‘working class’ chaps volunteered to fight the hun then the fascist nazi filth in 14 and 39?
 
#15
Finky, your signature block says it all really. The current crop of leaders of the labour party (hey i managed to type labour instead of liebour) are nothing more than a group of the so called champagne socialists (stand fast gordo, he is alcohol free champaign socialist I believe). They believe they know best, what is best for their wallets, what is best for their profile, what is best for them, they change direction like the wind, following the wishes of the population, until they get the votes they require then then they do not give a crap what the population of this country want, and only pay lip service to their promises,.

remember the 'war cries of 97

Education, Education, EDUCATION - constantly 'adjusting' the pass marks of GSCE's, ignoring the real falling of standards
24 Hours to save the NHS - give me a break, the NHS is at an all time low, wards closing, top heavy management, drowning in a sea of debt largely due to government directives, and the abysmal policy of renting hospital from the private sector which in the medium term is costing the NHS far more than it would have cost to build new hospitals at the public expense, but there again they though they would be out of power long before that one came home to roost.
Tough on crime, Tough on the causes of crime yeah sure, oh look the prisons are over populated, I know we won't build more prisons, we will let them all out early and reduce the numbers going into prison by cutting sentences or scrapping incarceration all together, oh yes and lets down grade grass, Christ i smoked it all the time at uni. ffs
Whiter than White there is more sleaze oozing out of this party than was ever laid at the conservatives door.

Their immigration policy is a joke. The tax burden is at the highest peacetime rate ever. The national debt keeps on growing (so much for the iron chancellor).

I do not know if I should laugh or cry
 
#16
Mr finknottle, Sir. I must thank you for making me review my Post. My, clearly mong-type editing had resulted in my omission of a very important word, "for";

The Spanish Civil War and the 2nd World War must have been a bit of a bugger for the Socialists. A direct conflict of principle; except it could be reconciled as the People against Fascism. They weren't necessarily fighting for their parent State and had certainly done little to prepare for such.
Please don't get me wrong. There are many socialists I admire, living and dead, but not for their beliefs. I once numbered amongst my acquaintances a man, a dyed in the wool Marxist, who had fought in the Spanish Civil War and still had the mental and physical scars to show for it. He was fighting a perceived evil that was diametrically opposed to everything he believed in. He fought against that evil; not for Spain nor Britain but for his personal beliefs and, as a man, I admired him. I am sure there were many similar who faught against Fascism and Prussian Imperialism, before it, bravely and stoutly, without any thought of National identity. The concept of the lesser of two evils springs to mind. A common thread, though, was limitation (if not anihalation) of the power of the Nation State.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
R094V1-George Miscellaneous 1
Shakey Miscellaneous 0
I History 1

Similar threads

New Posts