Navy Net - Royal Navy Community

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

How would you deal with the anti-capitalist protesters at St Pauls Cathedral?

Guzzler

War Hero
Why's that then? Does attending a protest make one unavailable for work? Does that apply to attending a football match, or going for a cup of coffe, or a stroll along the beach?
 

Grubber

Lantern Swinger
Why's that then? Does attending a protest make one unavailable for work? Does that apply to attending a football match, or going for a cup of coffe, or a stroll along the beach?

Well, technically, yeah.

I can't be in two places at once, don't know about you shippers.

But I see the point you're making and agree with it, which is that many of the protesters have jobs and protest in their off watch.
 

finknottle

Banned
On the subject of the Church charging to enter the Cathedral, it's very easy to be outraged at the cost without pausing to think where the money goes. Hundreds of old churches and associated buildings don't pay for themselves. Vicars, Priests, Deans, Deacons etc aren't going to get far in the world without a means to live by. Put the Express down and look at the bigger picture please.

I expect they are worth even more since this was published and I see no good reason to charge an entrance fee to gain access to a place of worship.

How much is the CofE worth link.
 

Grubber

Lantern Swinger
I expect they are worth even more since this was published and I see no good reason to charge an entrance fee to gain access to a place of worship.

How much is the CofE worth link.

Of course, the Guardian. that great bastion of neutrality and common sense reporting. Note particularly, the lack of a quote from anybody from the C of E and of any references.

In order to remain 'modern and relevant', to use one of our own catchphrases, the Church has had to move with the times and invest it's money in the modern fashion. This is particularly relevant with the current low return for savers. Were they not to do that, I'm sure you would be here lambasting the appalling state of our (particularly historic) religious buildings. I'm sure many will scoff at this sentiment from me, but I've paid to go in and don't have a problem with it. These buildings are astronomical to maintain. Indeed, I have a friend who is a stone mason and his services are far from cheap, even in a comparative world where skilled trades are dying out and can earn a premium wage.

Come on, you can do better than this.
 

Rocket_Ron

Lantern Swinger
Like seadog I can't see at what point they might say "protest over we have achieved our aims".Like `em or loathe `em the Banks ore here to stay and communism does not look likely to surpass capitalism any time in the forseeable future so the protesters are either there forever or until another point of protest catches their eye.Personally I would get them shifted in the middle of the night away from the media glare and rob them of the attention they think they deserve.

You haven`t noticed who`s buying up all the debt then ?
10yrs time it won`t matter an iota, we`ll all be singing from the Mandarin hymn sheet.
 

Grubber

Lantern Swinger
So now you say you would be happy to pay your entrance fee, as long as the exchequer see's it's portion of your cash?

Please also feel free to expand on 'un-elected lawmakers', as (maybe I'm ignorant on this) I don't remember the Church passing passing legislation that circumnavigates our democratic system of government.

Edited to add: This won't make much sense as there is a post from Finknottle which is now missing. Odd.
 
Last edited:
Of course, the Guardian. that great bastion of neutrality and common sense reporting. Note particularly, the lack of a quote from anybody from the C of E and of any references.

The Guardian is a newspaper not a peer review journal but if you really need a reference, how about this, the opening sentence of the article, "The Church Commissioners' 56-page report on the financial state of the Church of England released yesterday, made for, well, not particularly interesting reading really."? And aren't those signing off the quoted report, persons "from the C of E"?
The article consists of straight forward quotation of parts of a report without any stated opinion, apart from a reference to the dryness of its content, so please explain why you think there is a need for further comment by someone from the CofE.

Are you implying that the facts, as reported, about the CofE's assets and revenues are actually untrue?
Before you answer, if you do answer, bear in mind that Catherine Boyle is a well regarded journalist who is known for her strict ethical approach to her work and for its accuracy.
 
Last edited:

Blackrat

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Of course, the Guardian. that great bastion of neutrality and common sense reporting. Note particularly, the lack of a quote from anybody from the C of E and of any references.

In order to remain 'modern and relevant', to use one of our own catchphrases, the Church has had to move with the times and invest it's money in the modern fashion. This is particularly relevant with the current low return for savers. Were they not to do that, I'm sure you would be here lambasting the appalling state of our (particularly historic) religious buildings. I'm sure many will scoff at this sentiment from me, but I've paid to go in and don't have a problem with it. These buildings are astronomical to maintain. Indeed, I have a friend who is a stone mason and his services are far from cheap, even in a comparative world where skilled trades are dying out and can earn a premium wage.

Come on, you can do better than this.

You make a good point. I like you.
 

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
ding ding, finknottle wrote
I think they have chosen the right place to protest, £14 to enter a house of God! They have turned the Cathedral into a den of thieves through their commercial activities if JC were alive he would kick those clerics out on their arses.
already partially addressed but as far as I can tell (it's been a while) no-one is being charged to go to mass. Tourists are being charged to visit between masses. A building like St Paul's costs big money to maintain, repair, refurfish. If you have an idea for more ethical revenue stream I'm sure the Bish would love to hear from you.

Mod note, one unrelated, unfunny bandwidth wasting post deleted.
 
Last edited:

broadside

War Hero
Call me old fashioned, or naive or whatever you like but I believe that protesting with an end objective in sight is a valid expression of freedom of expression. Protesting with no stated objective is anarchy (and I don't consider "bring down capitalism" as a valid end objective in the absence of a proposition for something to replace it).

Someone on this thread made a statement to the effect that protesting should cause inconvenience. I only party agree with this - inconvenience to the individual against whom the protest is being directed is probably warranted (and that would include customers/associates/employees etc of the object against which the protest is being directed (as in the recent BA strikes) but inconvenience to "innocent bystanders" is not warrranted (IMHO) and I include visitors to St Paul's (congregation or tourists) in this definition.

There are numerous ways of targeting banks as a form of anti-capitalist protest which do not involve camping out (or not actually camping out) in tents on the steps of a cathedral.
 
Last edited:

finknottle

Banned
ding ding, finknottle wrote
already partially addressed but as far as I can tell (it's been a while) no-one is being charged to go to mass. Tourists are being charged to visit between masses. A building like St Paul's costs big money to maintain, repair, refurfish. If you have an idea for more ethical revenue stream I'm sure the Bish would love to hear from you.

Mod note, one unrelated, unfunny bandwidth wasting post deleted.

Wherever you are in England you will see redundant churches, this is not due to lack of funding it is down a dramatic downturn in congregation numbers. Many of these buildings are not listed and must be worth billions. The head of the church is one of the richest women in the world so she should be stumping up some of that vast wealth. The church also benefits from lottery funding, heritage bodies and tax concessions all funded by the public, so hearing that the church is short of funds is unqualified tosh.

Anyway I digress; I see no good reason to move on the protesters, as far as I am concerned as long as they behave themselves they should remain there as long as they wish.
 

broadside

War Hero
Wherever you are in England you will see redundant churches, this is not due to lack of funding it is down a dramatic downturn in congregation numbers. Many of these buildings are not listed and must be worth billions. The head of the church is one of the richest women in the world so she should be stumping up some of that vast wealth. The church also benefits from lottery funding, heritage bodies and tax concessions all funded by the public, so hearing that the church is short of funds is unqualified tosh.

Anyway I digress; I see no good reason to move on the protesters, as far as I am concerned as long as they behave themselves they should remain there as long as they wish.

If there is no longer a need for the churches (or for religion for that matter) then liquidate these fabulous assets worth billions and send the few occupants of same to find new ways of spending their Sunday mornings - job done, everybody happy, let's move on.
 

MG Maniac

War Hero
I'm confused! OK so thats not difficult but just what is the protest about? if its against the Bankers then why camp outside St Paul's ... why not outsdie the Bank of England? (My knowledge of London is woefully lacking so it could be next door) ... and if its about the Bankers ... why did the Dean of S Pauls resign????
 

Magda

War Hero
Book Reviewer
On the subject of the Church charging to enter the Cathedral, it's very easy to be outraged at the cost without pausing to think where the money goes. Hundreds of old churches and associated buildings don't pay for themselves. Vicars, Priests, Deans, Deacons etc aren't going to get far in the world without a means to live by. Put the Express down and look at the bigger picture please.

On the other hand, the Christian Church as an entirety (all denominations included) is hugely, obscenely wealthy and I do think perhaps that they could put their hand in their pocket occasionally to manage the upkeep of their religious buildings.

I don't resent playing a contribution to the upkeep of buildings of historical and cultural interest, which undoubtedly St Paul's is... but on the other hand I'd like to see some contribution from those who apparently dictate out moral path through these troubled times.

I can't help but think of the Barchester Chronicles...

As for the protest movement - I do not deny their right to freedom of speech and protest, but on the other hand what right have they to disrupt the lives of people going about their daily business, people who no doubt agree with some of their points but are hurt by their protests? And I also agree that they should show respect for the fallen by removing themselves for Armistice Day - they would gain nothing but reputations as disrespectful, disruptive troublemakers if they remain. They would achieve more by retiring and showing due respect than forcing their views upon those who merely want to honour the men and women who fought to save our freedom from tyranny and terror.
 

Grubber

Lantern Swinger
The Guardian is a newspaper not a peer review journal but if you really need a reference, how about this, the opening sentence of the article, "The Church Commissioners' 56-page report on the financial state of the Church of England released yesterday, made for, well, not particularly interesting reading really."? And aren't those signing off the quoted report, persons "from the C of E"?
The article consists of straight forward quotation of parts of a report without any stated opinion, apart from a reference to the dryness of its content, so please explain why you think there is a need for further comment by someone from the CofE.

Are you implying that the facts, as reported, about the CofE's assets and revenues are actually untrue?
Before you answer, if you do answer, bear in mind that Catherine Boyle is a well regarded journalist who is known for her strict ethical approach to her work and for its accuracy.

I don't think at any point in my post I said the article was untrue. But what I would imply is that it is, at no point, put into context. That is why I would have preferred to have seen some comments from a C of E representative. What is the point of listing their assets and business interests without giving the reader any idea of the cost of operating the C of E? To give some context, St Paul's apparently costs around £20m per year to run.

The article is not a 'straight forward quotation' either, hence the lack of quotation marks or a link to the document. It is edited highlights of a large document. The Guardian (hilariously) regards itself as a quality newspaper with a thinking clientele, so why would it be unreasonable to include a link to the document; whether it is interesting or not?

BTW why would I not reply, other than being busy at work?
 

Grubber

Lantern Swinger
I'm confused! OK so thats not difficult but just what is the protest about? if its against the Bankers then why camp outside St Paul's ... why not outsdie the Bank of England? (My knowledge of London is woefully lacking so it could be next door) ... and if its about the Bankers ... why did the Dean of S Pauls resign????

They were moved on and set up outside st Paul's instead
 

MG Maniac

War Hero
They were moved on and set up outside st Paul's instead

Thank you. That I didn't know ... but it still doesn't answer why the Dean of St Pauls felt his position was untenable and resigned. While I have no time for religion (whatever denomination / persuasion) ... I still cannot see what he, as "guardian of St Pauls", resigned when the protest is actually against the Bankers / Capitalism.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
MoD_RSS £2.4 billion munitions deal secures thousands of UK jobs MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK secures vital rollover trade deal with Canada and agrees to start negotiating more advanced deal next year MoD News 0
MoD_RSS European Commission refers review of Virgin and O2 deal to CMA MoD News 0
MoD_RSS £251 million Ayrshire Growth Deal signed MoD News 0
MoD_RSS DfT publishes recommendations to deliver fairer deal for communities on HS2 property schemes MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Yorkshire boat builders secure first export deal with UKEF backing MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Crowdcube/Seedrs deal fast tracked to in-depth CMA investigation MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK appoints champion to support developing countries to deal with climate change MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK Agri-Tech start-up lassoes deal with US ranchers MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Vital rail services protected through new deal with Arriva CrossCountry MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Deal between Carlsberg and Marston’s given the go-ahead MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK FinTech exporter signs deal to make card payments safer in the US MoD News 0
soleil FB: The Bands Of HM Royal Marines:: The 31st Anniversary Of The Deal Barracks Bombing The Corps 2
MoD_RSS UK-Japan trade deal offers boost to Welsh businesses MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK-Japan trade deal offers boost to Scottish businesses MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Construction materials deal raises competition concerns MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK Government confirms £32.5 million investment in Moray Growth Deal MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Deal between Visa and Plaid given the go-ahead MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Half a million frontline NHS workers benefit from coronavirus telecoms deal MoD News 0
MoD_RSS PM: A New Deal for Britain MoD News 0
MoD_RSS ‘Build build build’: Prime Minister announces New Deal for Britain MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Hundreds of arrests and deal lines closed as police crackdown on county lines gangs MoD News 0
MoD_RSS 70 million face masks for NHS and care workers through new industry deal MoD News 0
MoD_RSS CMA gives Just Eat and Takeaway.com deal the green light MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Payment software deal cleared by CMA MoD News 0
MoD_RSS £1 billion deal to end poor rural mobile coverage agreed MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK welcomes US deal with the Taliban and calls for Afghan leaders to seize opportunity to end decades of conflict MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Stirling and Clackmannanshire City Region Deal full deal signing MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Payment software deal does not raise competition concerns MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Deal between Google and Looker given the go-ahead MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK aiming for early trade deal with Australia MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Deal agreed to move 200 nuclear jobs into community MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Deal between Prosafe and Floatel raises competition concerns MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Deal To See Restored Government In Northern Ireland Tomorrow MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Iran nuclear deal: Foreign Secretary statement MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Transformative North Wales Growth Deal signed MoD News 0
MoD_RSS £1 billion deal set to solve poor mobile coverage MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Senior Traffic Commissioner outlines proposals to help operators with no deal EU exit MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Scottish Secretary responds to UK deal with EU MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Scottish Secretary announces £25 million for new Growth Deal MoD News 0
MoD_RSS United States crowns UK gin and wine blend with £90k export deal MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Civil/crime news: legal guidance to prepare for no-deal EU exit MoD News 0
MoD_RSS 'No deal' EU exit advice: further ports will be designated for movement of protected animals and plants MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Updated guidance on the movement of equines in a no deal scenario MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Letters on no deal Brexit advice for businesses trading with the EU and/or the rest of the world MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Iranian compliance with the nuclear deal: UK statement, 5 September 2019 MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Government announces immigration plans for no deal Brexit MoD News 0
MoD_RSS 2 improvements to ensure passengers get a better deal on rail fares MoD News 0
MoD_RSS UK and Korea to sign trade continuity deal to ensure businesses are ready to trade post-Brexit MoD News 0
MoD_RSS Letters on no deal Brexit advice for businesses trading with the EU MoD News 0
Similar threads


















































Latest Threads

Top