How will Scottish Independence effect the military?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by DrewyR, Apr 20, 2014.

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  1. I've been having a look through this: Scotland's Future & I've noticed that the SNP are planning on taking:


    • two frigates from the Royal Navy's current fleet
    • four mine counter measure vessels from the Royal Navy's current fleet
    • two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) to provide security for the 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).
    • four to six patrol boats from the Royal Navy's current fleet, capable of operating in coastal waters, providing fleet protection and also contributing to securing borders
    • auxiliary support ships (providing support to vessels on operations)
    • 12 Typhoon Jets
    • 6 C130s
    • A Helicopter squadron

    Would the MoD honestly allow them to take all that shit? the surface fleet is already small...
     
  2. One easy solution: let them have it, let them try to man and maintain and operate it, offer to take it back for a smallish fee (enough to cover the different ways they broke the kit) when the SNP's fantasy has finished smashing into the unyielding rocks of reality.

    If the Nats get their win, it'll be downright hilarious watching them trying to reconcile their fantasies with reality, certainly in defence terms (and a few other ways as well).
     
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  3. Calm down dear.Once the septic' s know they have all that oil and gas,Edinburgh castle will be flattened in a drone strike,and Alex Salmond will be pulled,bearded and shaken out of a hole in Islay somewhere for execution. Equilibrium will have returned...:thumbup::brave::happy6:
     
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  4. Probably have the kit but then Wee Eck needs to recruit enough bods with sufficient expertise to operate all the equipment, pay them, give them pensions, paid holidays and then set up maintenance with all costs. Air ground and maritime infrastructure, stores and supply lines and purchasing organisations. I've offered to send my whole library once I've finished colouring in both books. You know what really rankles? I served with many Scots and I can't believe that such a large amount of the Scottish population have been sucked in by this guy. Look at his history from uni to now. He's a feckin walking disaster. His intent is NOT to make Scotland better but to make the whole of the UK worse.
     
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  5. I doubt very much if Wee Eck has considered the possibility that those Scots serving in the armed forces may not want to transfer to the iScottish Armed Forces.

    Is he going to insist that they are part of the UK assets and he is entitled to 10%?
     
  6. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Affect the military. It matters.

    Salmond's fantasy defence force really annoys me. He hasn't a clue, nor does his Westminster Defence mouthpiece 'Field Marshal' Angus Robertson. In the event of independence, Scotland may get the gear on their wish lists but not even the individual soldiers in the Scottish Regiments can be forced to to step over to a Scottish Force. Promotion prospects will be grim, no-one senior to 1* required for what he has in (what passes for) mind. He may recruit experienced 'retired' Scottish personnel to fill the senior officer and NCO ranks and some ORs but the main body will have to be recruited and trained from scratch.

    And what a prospect. A home defence force doesn't do foreigns ( well the Japanese are stretching their legs ) so visits to the IoM, Barrow and Newcastle will be highlights of a naval career. NATO membership doesn't seem like a given, especially with Salmond's attitude to nuclear weapons. And with no offensive capability, any fighting of aggressors will be done on home soil. You don't have to be von Clausewitz to know that is not a good thing.
     
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  7. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    And if the pound and the Armed Forces are shared assets, surely North Sea oil and gas are too.

    Every time I see Salmond's smug fat face, Sturgeon's youngest old woman in Scotland act or another Westminster SNP MP, the very angry Peter Wishart, I want to kick the television. Poison.
     
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  8. .

    Stupid question number 1 :

    For individuals in the Armed Forces will they be able to choose a single nationality IF Scotland becomes independent, or will a dual nationality option be available ?
     
  9. That's another question that doesn't seem to have been thought through by the "grown-ups" yet.

    Just thinking sideways for a moment; supposing yer man Salmond wound his neck in a bit and accepted a similar status to the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. They aren't governed from Whitehall, Have HM the Q as their Head of State and contribute to HM Forces. That way, the RN and the Air Force avoid being fragmented and are still open to HM's non UK Subjects. I do recall that HMS's GUERNSEY, ALDERNEY and JERSEY were regular sights in their respective bits of the Channel.

    I think we do try to complicate things that really should be much simpler.
     
  10. Much like the currency issues, all questions relating to this(and everything else) will be sorted after the vote which is strange considering we know we will have more child care and lower business rates.It's almost as he is trying to bribe us and dodge the main important questions(how we pay for defence, how we split the debt etc) untill after the vote.

    Why does he want independence so badly as well as a currency union? If he wants it that badly why not just stay in the union! No point trying to get Scotland to wear it's big boy pants if we can't tie or own shoes. Setting I.terest rates for different countries with different strengths and weaknesses didn't work very well for the EU albeit admittedly on an grander scale. His whole white paper stinks of we will decide after the vote but I'd rather know now, if he is going to **** us over I at least want to know now so I can say I told you so. I won't be.moving into the SDF or whatever it's called.
     
  11. Not often I agree with Seadogs mumblings , but had to award his post a like regarding the smug fat face etc etc. Exactly my line of thought.
     
  12. We're not all fooled by Kim Jong Eck......imagine North and South Britain.....PSRNB (Peoples Socialist Republic of North Britain) tossing sea going scud fireworks across the pond at the Norgies and Cloggies.....oh how we laffed...
     
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  13. No but it is surprising how many Scots are. All I can think it is they're wanting to believe his spiel about how wonderful things will be if independence is achieved and are prepared to bury their heads in the sand to the reality of what it will mean.
     
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  14. Not all of us are falling for it! The majority still aren't. One thing that really irks me during this whole debate is that people keep talking about how the Scots want to be independent. Most don't! Hopefully that will still be the case in September...
     
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  15. The Wenches best mate married a person from North of the Wall, he moved down to Cumbria until her job was made redundant (she worked at RNAD Broughton Moor) she got the offer of relocation and initially moved up to Peterhead, then down to somewhere in the Glasgow area, they were down to visit a few weeks back, and the wench put iScotland firmly on the banned list of topics of conversation :) So about 5 mins after meeting them I asked the hubby how he was voting :) and this is more or less verbatim 'if it was 20 years ago it would definitely have been a yes, but now, well her job would be gone so its probably a no'
     
  16. I tried to have an intelligent conversation with the Yes Helensburgh and Lomond lot and asked the question where they were getting their armed forces from and the response was there are thousands of hard done to serving and ex serving armed forces who are desperate to join.
    i stated that having been in the service I knew no one who was willing to transfer, so, being typical Yes lot, they got angry with my response, telling me I was an idiot and knew nothing, I then asked about currency, again I was an idiot as Westminster is bluffing and King Salmond will sort it all after the vote!
    FFS they are truly deluded individuals!
     
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  17. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    drewfester, such doubt such questions, you are just scaremongering.

    I've only recently managed a conversation with a Yes person in which I didn't get covered in spit. A lot of shit but no spit. They do get wound up and angry very easily ( see Westminster SNP MP Peter Wishart ). Add to that their lack of expertise doesn't stop them telling experts they are wrong, be it the RICS, IMechE, ICE, CBI, BP, 1SL, Standard Life, MoD ( on warship building), EU grand fromage........ the list goes on.

    Wee wifie Sturgeon trumpeted that the UK warship build policy was nonsense because the RFA MARS ships are being built in South Korea. Oh dear dear.

    These angry, deluded, deceitful, hateful, spiteful no marks and their ilk are in the pool from which the government of an independent Scotland would be drawn. It isn't just Scotland who should worry.
     
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  18. If things keep going the way they are, the majority will be with the Yes crowd by the time of the vote. Polls show, excluding don't knows, 48% Yes and 52% No. Salmond's lot have done very well, they've managed to convince people that whenever the Better Together group tells us what we would lose, that they're horrible bullies just scaremongering.

    Speaking with the people who I know will be voting Yes, for many it is very much a vote against the Tories. The older lot still have Thatcher seared in their mind, while the younger lot grew up hearing stories of how evil she was from their parents. The current ConDem government is despised and people are willing to risk everything to get rid of them forever.

    As to the military, I guess it would weaken the UK forces a little. But the Scottish forces are going to be a joke.

    With the current difficulties in recruiting, how on earth does the Scottish gov think that they will be able to recruit enough people? If they are planning for a mass exodus from the British Forces, that's not going to happen. It'd be like a chef working in a Michelin-starred restaurant, giving it all up, and going to 'cook' burgers in McDonalds. If Scotland does vote for independence, I certainly won't be applying for Scottish forces, I'll be going for the one with better opportunities.

    Then theres the problem with training. Where will people be trained past basic training? To my knowledge, there are no training facilities in Scotland and I doubt the rUK will be happy for us to send everyone down and get free training of them. Ships with no crew, tanks with no crew and aircraft with no pilots aren't much use. I guess we could build a wall on the Scottish/English border with them all.
     
  19. Have to agree Seadog, they got angry and even said I was scaremongering. As a Scotsman myself I am very worried what will happen if they do get a yes vote. It's my parents who are both retired pensioners that I really worry about as again no definitive answers are given and they've spent the money a dozen times over all ready, not my parents but Salmond and his lot!
    Very worrying times ahead for all me thinks !!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2014
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