How to lose an insurgency - It's all Bush's Fault!

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Oil_Slick, May 8, 2007.

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  1. Quite frankly, with the US troops having this mindset we are on a hiding to nothing…



    Troops at Odds With Ethics Standards
    Army Also Finds More Deployment Means More Mental Illness

    By Thomas E. Ricks and Ann Scott Tyson
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Saturday, May 5, 2007; Page A01


    More than one-third of U.S. soldiers in Iraq surveyed by the Army said they believe torture should be allowed if it helps gather important information about insurgents, the Pentagon disclosed yesterday. Four in 10 said they approve of such illegal abuse if it would save the life of a fellow soldier.

    In addition, about two-thirds of Marines and half the Army troops surveyed said they would not report a team member for mistreating a civilian or for destroying civilian property unnecessarily. "Less than half of Soldiers and Marines believed that non-combatants should be treated with dignity and respect," the Army report stated.

    About 10 percent of the 1,767 troops in the official survey -- conducted in Iraq last fall -- reported that they had mistreated civilians in Iraq, such as kicking them or needlessly damaging their possessions.

    Army researchers "looked under every rock, and what they found was not always easy to look at," said S. Ward Casscells, the assistant secretary of defense for health affairs.

    Continues……

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...AR2007050402151.html?nav=rss_email/components
     
  2. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    The best way to lose an Insurgency is to have created the circumstances that fostered it!
     
  3. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    The use of torture as an instrument of US policy flows from the very highest levels of the US Government. These are the same folks who consider the Geneva Conventions to be quaint and old-fashioned and refuse to sign the International Criminal Court conventions.

    Hopefully the rumours that Gordon Broone intends to drastically change British Middle-East policy will mean that not only will we pull out of Iraq in the very near future but we will also put some distance between British and US foreign policy.

    RM
     
  4. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    Let us hope so.
     
  5. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    As much as we would all like to see British troops out of Iraq, I simply do not think that right now it would be right for us to pull out with Iraq in its current state, would it not fall into complete disarray?

    Whether or not you agreed with the war in the first place, now we are there we need to finish it to secure the country for future generations of Iraqis.
     
  6. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    unfortunately, any test, any poll can be skewed, and its contents "spun", to project whatever result you like.
     
  7. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    P-O, I totally disagree with you we have lost enough of our people in what is a bloody catastrophe and I for one hold Blair singly responsible. As I have said in the past when will his lads be joining up to help bring about his evangelical new world order, it's a rhetorical question.
     
  8. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    It's a harsh cruel world we live in. Muslims have made plain their plan for those who have eyes & the courage to see. Convert to Islam or die. Most Americans will do neither.

    The "Blame America First" crowd are always the first to scream "Geneva Convention!" whenever an American solider roughs up a Arab in order to get some information to save allied soldiers lives. But the same crowd will inevitably remain silent as Muslim thugs gouge out the eyes and cut the testicles off a GI while the poor solider is still alive.

    Years of the British softy softy approach to the Muslims in your midst have left you with festering pockets of radical anti-western zealots in your major cities. They have blown up your buses & trains and yet you still don't see the threat. Of course that's America's fault too I suppose.

    As far as pulling out of Iraq and putting distance between British and US foreign policy, maybe it isn't a bad idea. Join the ranks with such brave nations like France & Spain. It will make the Islamofacists in your country happy and you will be safe. For the moment. Your ubiquitous camera system & unarmed police force will protect you. Such a deterrent will surely stop the next Muslim attack on you, your wives and children. And if it doesn't? Why, there's always America to blame isn't there?
     
  9. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    There wasn't an Islamofascist problem until the USA decided to get some licks in against the Soviets in Afghanistan by supporting the wily Muj and financing and arming people like Osama bin Laden [remember him??]

    It's called blow-back GS.....and like most things in life payback is definitely a bitch :lol:

    [​IMG]



    RM
     
  10. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    I'm not a proponent of torture and it is not US policy to employ it. It is an allegation but not a fact.

    Time for more reading assignments gentlemen. READ the Geneva Conventions and you will learn that Iraqi insurgents and al Quaeda fighters are specifically exempt from it's protections. They are conducting combat operations in civilian clothing and disguising themselves as non-combatants. They are not entitled to any civilized treatment whatsoever and, by the letter of the law, are subject to being shot on the spot.

    Be that as it may, lets find out who really believes torture should not be employed under any circumstances shall we? Lets assume for a moment that someone with advance knowledge of the bus and subway bombings in London was captured two hours before the bombers left their hideout but refused to give up the information. Lets further assume that your family is on the subway. Employ torture and save your family and others or fetch the fellow a lawyer and let your family be blown to bits.

    Here's another. You discover a plot against the RN but that's all you know. You capture someone you know to be a conspirator and you know time to be short and he's not talking. A thousand shipmates lives are at stake. Torture or lawyer?

    And another. You learn that al Quaeda has obtained a nuke and has successfully delivered it into a major British city. You have a conspirator in custody who knows the EXACT location of the devise. Torture or lawyer?

    Let the voting begin.
     
  11. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    Of course we would never do anything like that would we, it's simply not cricket.
     
  12. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    oh come on fink, MI-5 (and its predecessors) has been running the show from the 1700's to the 1950's when the CIA took over. try and tell me they never employed torture, go on, i dare ya.

    if you did, you'd be lying.
     
  13. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    Bergen what are you smoking? The US didn't help Bin Laden in Afghanistan. The US helped several other groups in the Mujahadeen movement but not him. He hated the US as much as he did the the Soviets and threatened to kill any CIA folks who approached his camp. Your deductions on "blow back" are backasswards. We helped Muslims in Afghanistan fight the invading Soviets. That means we were ALLIES. We had the good will of most of Afghanistan for that help and still do. The enemy in that country today is al Quaeda and the Taliban which constitute a small fraction of the population but the most well armed. They were armed by Bin Ladens personal fortune as well as that of the rulers of the Gulf states who want to curry favor with al Quaeda in order to keep him away from them. Extortion works.

    This isn't a war of nations or of international boundaries. It's a war against a movement, the Islamist movement. Their only objective is to eradicate Western culture by any means. They have stated in both word and print that the only thing they want is total world conquest by Islam. The word "Islam" does not mean "peace" in spite of what Bush says. It translates to "submission". You get peace once you submit to Islam.

    There is no one in the West who brought this war about. I say again, NO ONE. This is not a war of some poor dumb bastard getting even with the big bad West. It's a war of total conquest by Islam. Read your history and you'll find that this is simply the latest installment of a war that has gone on for a millenium. GB has been conquored by these peoples ancestors before and most likely will be again.
     
  14. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    The CIA financed the Muj through Pakistani intelligence [ISS] and never had any clear idea of where the money or the weapons were going. It's typical dumb American behaviour..stir up problems and then stand back with tears in your eyes and wonder what went wrong. Now you are puzzled why the majority of the world thinks that Bush and the US are the biggest terrorists on the planet. News for you; the Afghans hate you; you were never allies just useful fools with an excess of dollars.

    RM
     
  15. Re: How to lose an insurgency


    I must have missed the part when the Islamic hordes invaded Britain in the past… :?
     
  16. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    Probably disguised as crusaders......with Holy hand grenades...oh that's a different story.... :D
     
  17. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    Quote………

    In addition, about two-thirds of Marines and half the Army troops surveyed said they would not report a team member for mistreating a civilian or for destroying civilian property unnecessarily. "Less than half of Soldiers and Marines believed that non-combatants should be treated with dignity and respect," the Army report stated.

    About 10 percent of the 1,767 troops in the official survey -- conducted in Iraq last fall -- reported that they had mistreated civilians in Iraq, such as kicking them or needlessly damaging their possessions.



    And what precisly does randomly beating up Iraqis and destroying their property just for kicks have to do with 'getting information'…

    I know it's hard for Americans to understand, but if you beat people up they tend to dislike you. It's also amazingly hard for the USA to understand the 1st rule of counter insurgeny… Every innocent member of the population you assault or kill recruits 100 new members to the insurgency
     
  18. Re: How to lose an insurgency




    US Colonel states that he is "Deeply, deeply, ashamed"

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6617408,00.html

    These are the idiots that we went to war with. We have the finest armed forces in the world, dedicated brave and overwhelming honourable. We don't torture and we don't kill civilians as a matter of national policy. How the hell did we align with these numpties?

    RM
     
  19. Re: How to lose an insurgency

    In the aftermath of 9/11 didn't G Dubs come out with some crap like 'you're either with us or against us' the Bliar in his inimtatable fell for it. If Bliar had tried that on the resident chimp over NI he'd have been laughed at. Bliar swallowed it though. Hook, line and bodies.

    For two so called religious believers it is one fcuking unholy alliance. The sooner they're both gone the better as I'm starting to believe they're evil.

    Bergen I can almost hear that Spit :D
     
  20. Re: How to lose an insurgency

     

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