Hopping mad!!
- Thread starter rosinacarley
- Start date
Yes - in my case, I'd lost my job a month previous because of the ORT and then it was cancelled with less than a week's notice.
Personally, I'd try and find a contact within your specialisation's Functional Employer to see if any alternative tasking can be arranged for the same period. Don't rely on your PSI to make this call, get the details of you FE POC and call them.
I was discussing my case with the Comms FE POC a few months after it had happened and she hadn't been aware of what had happened, nor that there'd been no alternative training offered in lieu of the cancelled ORT - in my case, since I was unemployed at the time of the cancellation, this wasn't too much of a problem, although I did suffer financially later on that year due to loss of civvy earnings for the rescheduled ORT.
Good luck!
Flags
Personally, I'd try and find a contact within your specialisation's Functional Employer to see if any alternative tasking can be arranged for the same period. Don't rely on your PSI to make this call, get the details of you FE POC and call them.
I was discussing my case with the Comms FE POC a few months after it had happened and she hadn't been aware of what had happened, nor that there'd been no alternative training offered in lieu of the cancelled ORT - in my case, since I was unemployed at the time of the cancellation, this wasn't too much of a problem, although I did suffer financially later on that year due to loss of civvy earnings for the rescheduled ORT.
Good luck!
Flags
This happens a LOT, and the RNR hierarchy know it does too. Part of the problem is there are limited spaces on courses so some units block book people on it "just in case" there people can get the time off. When it transpires they can't they cancel the booking at short notice resulting in there being not enough to run the course.
The other affect of this is that RNR from other Units get told that there are no available spaces on these courses, only to be told the course was subsequently cancelled due to cancellations.
A right balls up all round!!
The other affect of this is that RNR from other Units get told that there are no available spaces on these courses, only to be told the course was subsequently cancelled due to cancellations.
A right balls up all round!!
this years ran like clockwork.....but last years....ah different story. 8O
was suposed to be working with the crab air movers for two weeks. All done properly and above board. But somewhere between the paperwork leaving the unit and me getting there, someone didn't let the crabs know I was comming....... :cry:
so instead of two weeks doing practical useful training I was a gash hand in unit B***K*%$&^!..... still not best pleased even now. :twisted:
still after hearing some of the horror stories I figure 1 in 4 ORT as a cockup ratio isn't too bad
was suposed to be working with the crab air movers for two weeks. All done properly and above board. But somewhere between the paperwork leaving the unit and me getting there, someone didn't let the crabs know I was comming....... :cry:
so instead of two weeks doing practical useful training I was a gash hand in unit B***K*%$&^!..... still not best pleased even now. :twisted:
still after hearing some of the horror stories I figure 1 in 4 ORT as a cockup ratio isn't too bad
First time I've heard of that happening. Perhaps you know something the rest of us do not? Courses will not take bookings without specific names. Some courses have guaranteed places for the RNR.
I agree that last minute course cancellations can bugger people up but they happen across the RN also, so the problem is not limited to the RNR. Ships break, instructors get crash drafted, operational commitments take priority. Unfortunately it is more hassle for us when it happens than simply returning jack to his ship.
To play devils advocate, how often do the RNR cancel off courses at the last minute, causing numbers to fall below course minimum or exercises to be undermanned.?
Part of the problem is we cannot/do not (as a whole) book far enough in advance. I once tried to submit an RNR 16 11 months in advance , only to have it thrown back at me and told I couldn't submit it until 3 months before the exercise.
If applications had to be made (e.g) minimum 2 months in advance, final course numbers would be known early enough to give people plenty of warning of cancellations.
I agree that last minute course cancellations can bugger people up but they happen across the RN also, so the problem is not limited to the RNR. Ships break, instructors get crash drafted, operational commitments take priority. Unfortunately it is more hassle for us when it happens than simply returning jack to his ship.
To play devils advocate, how often do the RNR cancel off courses at the last minute, causing numbers to fall below course minimum or exercises to be undermanned.?
Part of the problem is we cannot/do not (as a whole) book far enough in advance. I once tried to submit an RNR 16 11 months in advance , only to have it thrown back at me and told I couldn't submit it until 3 months before the exercise.
If applications had to be made (e.g) minimum 2 months in advance, final course numbers would be known early enough to give people plenty of warning of cancellations.
I think there's two different beasts that get called ORT within the RNR; there's the career course type scenario at an RN (or Army, RAF or JS in these purple days) Establishment, and then there's employment within an Operational or Exercise environment out in the real world.
I've seen people binned from training courses due to lack of preparation (POLC - failed day 1 fitness) who were subsequently employed in Pompey dockyard for two weeks so that their time off wasn't wasted (however, their lack of preparation was their fault, not the Navy's so they were lucky).
In the case of operational/exercise employment; plans change right up to the last minute, and manning requirements will also change. The RN needs to recognise that our civvy employers will not be as flexible with respect to timescales as perhaps they would expect from a Regular. Interestingly, I know of an RNR officer who was due to be mobilised for 6 months with his employer's blessing and co-operation; he was stood down and asked to come back a few months hence - this time his employer, understandably in my opinion, refused. His employer? - the Civil Service supporting the MoD! If the RN can screw around and piss off its own support arm, think what effect it will have on the non-defence employers.
I've seen people binned from training courses due to lack of preparation (POLC - failed day 1 fitness) who were subsequently employed in Pompey dockyard for two weeks so that their time off wasn't wasted (however, their lack of preparation was their fault, not the Navy's so they were lucky).
In the case of operational/exercise employment; plans change right up to the last minute, and manning requirements will also change. The RN needs to recognise that our civvy employers will not be as flexible with respect to timescales as perhaps they would expect from a Regular. Interestingly, I know of an RNR officer who was due to be mobilised for 6 months with his employer's blessing and co-operation; he was stood down and asked to come back a few months hence - this time his employer, understandably in my opinion, refused. His employer? - the Civil Service supporting the MoD! If the RN can screw around and piss off its own support arm, think what effect it will have on the non-defence employers.
Yeah tell me about it, I dont suppose you were on a course for 30 Oct - 2nd Nov too were you!?!
My PSI is so lovely though told me its not a prob as they found another training opportunity but on 2nd Nov -11 Nov so no where near the dates I can do and also its for 9 days rather than the 5 days the original course was :evil: You try to explain sorry got a family and work to sort out and all you get is where do your priority lies! I so wish life was easier! :evil:
Never mind commcen here I come!
My PSI is so lovely though told me its not a prob as they found another training opportunity but on 2nd Nov -11 Nov so no where near the dates I can do and also its for 9 days rather than the 5 days the original course was :evil: You try to explain sorry got a family and work to sort out and all you get is where do your priority lies! I so wish life was easier! :evil:
Never mind commcen here I come!
Whether its right or not if you get on with your PSI's they do tend to make more of an effort.
I always make a point of getting on with ours and i've mostly been given good ORT opportunities. On the one occasion where my ORT was changed (not cancelled) my PSI managed to get me a draft which turned out to be the best one i've ever had.
2 weeks on a JMC in October on RFA Oakleaf. Ooooooooo it was a pain using the sauna, gym and swimming pool every day but someone had to. Gen Dit a f*ckin' sauna and swimming pool!!!! couldnt believe it - i thought they were sh*tting me.
But sereiously, it isnt always hard but i've always found that life is much easier if you get on with the PSI's. I've been given opportunities that others haven't. If they see that you are willing to help yourself they make the effort.
I always make a point of getting on with ours and i've mostly been given good ORT opportunities. On the one occasion where my ORT was changed (not cancelled) my PSI managed to get me a draft which turned out to be the best one i've ever had.
2 weeks on a JMC in October on RFA Oakleaf. Ooooooooo it was a pain using the sauna, gym and swimming pool every day but someone had to. Gen Dit a f*ckin' sauna and swimming pool!!!! couldnt believe it - i thought they were sh*tting me.
But sereiously, it isnt always hard but i've always found that life is much easier if you get on with the PSI's. I've been given opportunities that others haven't. If they see that you are willing to help yourself they make the effort.
Not so much cancelled at the last minute.
Was booked on a 2 week course at Collingrad which it turns out had been cancelled 6 months before hand. Except that I didn't book it until 3 months before hand.
Turns out Fleet had been told by Collingrad but forgot to take it off the system, the regulars on the course got told, so I ended being bit of a lemon wondering why there was no mention of the course on the notice board.
Got told by the course office that I should have checked when my joining instructions hadn't turned up, but how many times has anyone been told "Well your booked in so just turn and all will be ok"javascript:emoticon('post', 'message', '')
Embarassed
Luckily for me I have an understanding employer who allowed me back to work with the loss of a couple of days leave.
LTP
Was booked on a 2 week course at Collingrad which it turns out had been cancelled 6 months before hand. Except that I didn't book it until 3 months before hand.
Turns out Fleet had been told by Collingrad but forgot to take it off the system, the regulars on the course got told, so I ended being bit of a lemon wondering why there was no mention of the course on the notice board.
Got told by the course office that I should have checked when my joining instructions hadn't turned up, but how many times has anyone been told "Well your booked in so just turn and all will be ok"javascript:emoticon('post', 'message', '
')Embarassed
Luckily for me I have an understanding employer who allowed me back to work with the loss of a couple of days leave.
LTP
The same happens all the time in our unit with weekends being cancelledas well. Luckily I have a desent boss , I was supposed to be on Neptune Warrior in Oct. but it was cancelled at short notice :evil: and after me getting holidays arranged for it through work, no alternative ORT offered either, still looking for 2 weeks.
, I was supposed to be on Neptune Warrior in Oct. but it was cancelled at short notice :evil: and after me getting holidays arranged for it through work, no alternative ORT offered either, still looking for 2 weeks.
This issue was raised at the MTO weekend at Collingwood. Our Commander's attitude was that the RN should take you for 2 weeks if they have cancelled your ORT and find alternative employment for you, thus minimising any losses to the Reservist.
So if you are MTO, raise it through the chain of command-I'd start with your RTO. Three out of four were there last weekend, and should be aware of the comment. If you're not MTO, use us as a precedent or transfer!
I find a brass hat in your corner helps resolves a number of issues.
So if you are MTO, raise it through the chain of command-I'd start with your RTO. Three out of four were there last weekend, and should be aware of the comment. If you're not MTO, use us as a precedent or transfer!
I find a brass hat in your corner helps resolves a number of issues.
As something of an add-on thought.
My view is that if your ORT is cancelled (through no fault of your own), rather than stick you on a course that is of no relevance to you or get you doing something just to fill the time you should be signed off as having turned up but not been used and given a Bounty waiver.
This may not be popular with everyone because you would dip out of the double bubble (RN plus civvie pay(if that is the arrangement you have with your employer) but it would be a much more efficient way for the RNR to run its business.
My view is that if your ORT is cancelled (through no fault of your own), rather than stick you on a course that is of no relevance to you or get you doing something just to fill the time you should be signed off as having turned up but not been used and given a Bounty waiver.
This may not be popular with everyone because you would dip out of the double bubble (RN plus civvie pay(if that is the arrangement you have with your employer) but it would be a much more efficient way for the RNR to run its business.
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