HMS Thetis

Armybloke

Newbie
As you've probably guessed from my username, i've never served in Submarines, (nearly did, won't bore you with that..) I found an old book I read years ago about HMS Thetis. Curious to know whether you blokes who do it for real have an opinion on it. Do you think the Navy was more interested in keeping the boat in one piece rather than saving the poor sods inside? Appreciate it may not be a subject serving submariners would like to discuss but thought i'd ask anyway.
 

percey99

Badgeman
It was a bank holiday and even in them days messages were slow to send NO BODY WAS INTERESTED til it was too late ???
 

Armybloke

Newbie
I seem to remember the Navy wouldn't use local civvy salvage firms who wanted to cut a hole in the stern and put in compressed air. They bodged an attempt to lift the stern instead. Didn't know it was a bank holiday; Nobody on duty then?
 

Dabs

Lantern Swinger
Armybloke said:
Do you think the Navy was more interested in keeping the boat in one piece rather than saving the poor sods inside?
If you consider that the Navy's priorities are:

1. To float.
2. To move.
3. To fight.

Then you could say that the Navy is more interested with the bods inside, because without them, well, you just can't carry out the Navy's priorities can you? :wink:
 

Armybloke

Newbie
True Dabs, but there was a quote to a telegrapher from a naval officer at the time when there was still hope for the crew - "Under no circumstances must the submarine be damaged". Remember it was a brand spanking new T class boat - state of the art and very expensive...
 
Thetis was lost three months before the start of WW2 --the UK was panic stricken trying to re-arm the forces after years of neglect.

At that time aswell--the set up for Submarines involved in accidents wasn't really efficient and also the Thetis was still under makers trials . She was over manned when she sank [fifty additional people onboard]

The usual cluster fcuk.
 

DickyB

Badgeman
My Dad was in boats throughout WW2 and said he served in HMS/m Thresher and that it was the Thetis renamed. Anyone know if that is what was done?
 

DickyB

Badgeman
janner said:
DickyB said:
My Dad was in boats throughout WW2 and said he served in HMS/m Thresher and that it was the Thetis renamed. Anyone know if that is what was done?
Thetis was raised, refitted and renamed Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt was sunk by the Italians later in the War.

Very interesting article here

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/britsubthetis.html
Thanks Janner.
It was a long time ago my dad told me that story so I could have got it wrong though he was "in his cups" at the time, the only time he really spoke about his war service.
Thanks again.
 

Deeps

War Hero
Very interesting , My grandad served on HM/SM THUNDERBOLT .He told me that there was a tide mark on the bulkhead back aft somewhere and no matter how many times it was painted over the tide mark came back as soon as the paint dried . He went on serve in HM/SM URSULA and servived the war .
 

Jack77

War Hero
As an aside, is it correct that in the RN the safety swing bolt on a torpedo tube rear door is known as a Thetis clip, after the loss of Thetis was put down to both bowcap and rear door being opened together?.
 

aaaaa

Badgeman
As I believe that is correct when I started in the forends we always called it the thetis clip but at the end they tried to get us not to strange as we all learn by mistakes.
 
The other improvement on the Torpedo Tube rear door was the test cock and reamer fitted.

You didn't move anything till you proved the tube by opening the test cock and inserting the reamer to make sure the hole wasn't blocked.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I believe that the Thetis was fitted with test cock and reamer but they weren't properly used at the time. There was a small blob of enamel paint blocking the test hole, because of this no water showed when the cock was opened.
RN were touchy about the Thetis clip, during training we were told that the safety clip was not called the Thetis clip.
There have been a couple of books written about the tradgedy, both by the same author I believe, the second tries to reach conclusions re causes and apportion blame to some extent, I didn't feel wholly convinced by the arguments put forward in it
 

Deckhead_Inspector

Lantern Swinger
It is called a Thetis clip. Its a bit like the child locks I have on my Kitchen Cupboard doors. Only alows the doors to be opened a few inches before it is taken off. Don't forget many Laird's men were lost in that boat as well possibly even the man responsible for the duff paint job. She was rather crowded. A true tradgedy for all, but the important issue is that many lessons were learned. As for Thunderbolt, I believe the story about the tide mark. Some things are beyond explanation. Sailors always believed it was unluky to change a name. Perhaps Thetis should have stuck, after all it is difficult to be sunk twice. But of course now the name lives on in all our Boats. In that little clip.

(Watch the old film Morning Departure if you can't begin to imagine what it must have been like. Did it as a school play and was happy to be a Skimmer after that.)
 

polariod

Lantern Swinger
Deckhead_Inspector said:
It is called a Thetis clip. Its a bit like the child locks I have on my Kitchen Cupboard doors. Only alows the doors to be opened a few inches before it is taken off. Don't forget many Laird's men were lost in that boat as well possibly even the man responsible for the duff paint job. She was rather crowded. A true tradgedy for all, but the important issue is that many lessons were learned. As for Thunderbolt, I believe the story about the tide mark. Some things are beyond explanation. Sailors always believed it was unluky to change a name. Perhaps Thetis should have stuck, after all it is difficult to be sunk twice. But of course now the name lives on in all our Boats. In that little clip.

(Watch the old film Morning Departure if you can't begin to imagine what it must have been like. Did it as a school play and was happy to be a Skimmer after that.)
Boats tubes were fitted with the test cock and reamer before the Thetis disaster. The current name was applied after the hole was found to have been painted over and blamed for the sinking.

Recently I have read a transcription of a court case in which two relatives of men lost on the boat tried to sue Pusser and Vickers for negligence and in particular alleged (a) the Torpedo Officer and his Forends L/S contibuted to the sinking by not using the reamer amongst other things and (b) Vicker were negligent by not inspecting the work of the sub contractors whose staff painted the insides of the tubes.

The relatives lost the case and the following appeal.

The transcript also revealed that the mechanical interlocks and indicators for the bow doors were not foolproof and that the operating personnel had to be knowledgable of the fact and trained in the operation and interpretation of the interlocks.

I think my mate downloaded the document from the web but I've had a quick search and can't find it.

Pol
 

polariod

Lantern Swinger
polariod said:
Deckhead_Inspector said:
It is called a Thetis clip. Its a bit like the child locks I have on my Kitchen Cupboard doors. Only alows the doors to be opened a few inches before it is taken off. Don't forget many Laird's men were lost in that boat as well possibly even the man responsible for the duff paint job. She was rather crowded. A true tradgedy for all, but the important issue is that many lessons were learned. As for Thunderbolt, I believe the story about the tide mark. Some things are beyond explanation. Sailors always believed it was unluky to change a name. Perhaps Thetis should have stuck, after all it is difficult to be sunk twice. But of course now the name lives on in all our Boats. In that little clip.

(Watch the old film Morning Departure if you can't begin to imagine what it must have been like. Did it as a school play and was happy to be a Skimmer after that.)
Boats tubes were fitted with the test cock and reamer before the Thetis disaster. The current name was applied after the hole was found to have been painted over and blamed for the sinking.

Recently I have read a transcription of a court case in which two relatives of men lost on the boat tried to sue Pusser and Vickers for negligence and in particular alleged (a) the Torpedo Officer and his Forends L/S contibuted to the sinking by not using the reamer amongst other things and (b) Cammels were negligent by not inspecting the work of the sub contractors whose staff painted the insides of the tubes.

The relatives lost the case and the following appeal.

The transcript also revealed that the mechanical interlocks and indicators for the bow doors were not foolproof and that the operating personnel had to be knowledgable of the fact and trained in the operation and interpretation of the interlocks.

I think my mate downloaded the document from the web but I've had a quick search and can't find it.

Pol
Had a memory flash back re the above transcript. The test cock was situated halfway up the tubes Aft (inboard) door. Even if the reamer had been used to prove that the bore of the test cock was clear because of the cocks situation the tube could still be half full of oggin. There was no interlock connection (electical or mechanical) between the test cock and the Bow and Aft doors of the torpedo tube and therefore the cock could not indicate whether the Bow Door was open or shut.

The boat was having trouble diving and at some stage the Torpedo Officer went to the Control room and asked if the Fwd. tubes were flooded. He was told that they were empty and took this as gospel and did not use the reamer before opening the Aft door. Some minutes prior to the Aft door being opened the mechanical indicators had been checked and showed the Bow door to be shut. After this lapse of a few minutes the TO and his L/S carried out the drill to open the door and the disaster commenced.

Pol
 
polariod said:
Deckhead_Inspector said:
It is called a Thetis clip. Its a bit like the child locks I have on my Kitchen Cupboard doors. Only alows the doors to be opened a few inches before it is taken off. Don't forget many Laird's men were lost in that boat as well possibly even the man responsible for the duff paint job. She was rather crowded. A true tradgedy for all, but the important issue is that many lessons were learned. As for Thunderbolt, I believe the story about the tide mark. Some things are beyond explanation. Sailors always believed it was unluky to change a name. Perhaps Thetis should have stuck, after all it is difficult to be sunk twice. But of course now the name lives on in all our Boats. In that little clip.

(Watch the old film Morning Departure if you can't begin to imagine what it must have been like. Did it as a school play and was happy to be a Skimmer after that.)
Boats tubes were fitted with the test cock and reamer before the Thetis disaster. The current name was applied after the hole was found to have been painted over and blamed for the sinking.


Pol
Polaroid

I think you have little kowledge of the rear doors on torpedo tubes. Yes the test cock and reamer were fitted to the Thetis and all boats since and for years before. That is not a Thetis Clip.

What was fitted after this accident is a clip with a screw catch. This clip, on the opposite to the hinge allows the rear door to open about 1 to 2 inches. If water then pours in, a tommy bar put thru a ringbolt shaped bolt fitted to the screw allows you to tighten up the door against water pressure and then engaged the locking system to shut the rear door again. Hence the name "Thetis Clip"

Nutty
 

polariod

Lantern Swinger
Nutty said:
polariod said:
Deckhead_Inspector said:
It is called a Thetis clip. Its a bit like the child locks I have on my Kitchen Cupboard doors. Only alows the doors to be opened a few inches before it is taken off. Don't forget many Laird's men were lost in that boat as well possibly even the man responsible for the duff paint job. She was rather crowded. A true tradgedy for all, but the important issue is that many lessons were learned. As for Thunderbolt, I believe the story about the tide mark. Some things are beyond explanation. Sailors always believed it was unluky to change a name. Perhaps Thetis should have stuck, after all it is difficult to be sunk twice. But of course now the name lives on in all our Boats. In that little clip.

(Watch the old film Morning Departure if you can't begin to imagine what it must have been like. Did it as a school play and was happy to be a Skimmer after that.)
Boats tubes were fitted with the test cock and reamer before the Thetis disaster. The current name was applied after the hole was found to have been painted over and blamed for the sinking.


Pol
Polaroid

I think you have little kowledge of the rear doors on torpedo tubes. Yes the test cock and reamer were fitted to the Thetis and all boats since and for years before. That is not a Thetis Clip.

What was fitted after this accident is a clip with a screw catch. This clip, on the opposite to the hinge allows the rear door to open about 1 to 2 inches. If water then pours in, a tommy bar put thru a ringbolt shaped bolt fitted to the screw allows you to tighten up the door against water pressure and then engaged the locking system to shut the rear door again. Hence the name "Thetis Clip"

Nutty
Your're bang on about the Thetis Clip Nutty but I dont think I mentioned it. I stuck to the test Cock and Reamer.

Pol
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
soleil Sinking of HMS Thetis History 1
S HMS Thetis History 16
D HMS Surprise History 3
J HMS Collingwood leave dates UPO/Careers Office 7
soleil Portsmouth News: "34 Great Old Photos Of The Famous Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier HMS Hermes" The Fleet 1
soleil Portsmouth News: "Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier HMS Prince Of Wales To Carry Out Investigation After Flooding Onboard" The Fleet 16
soleil Scuba Diver Mag: "Heart of Oak – On Board The Royal Navy’s HMS Richmond" The Fleet 0
soleil Cornish Times: "HMS Raleigh's Wartime Role Remembered As Latest Recruits Prepare To Pass-out On VE Day 75" Bases / Shore Est 1
A What happens after interview stage? How long do you have to wait till you get to HMS Raleigh? Joining Up - Royal Navy Recruiting 13
C Loss of HMS Sheffield Current Affairs 3
WreckerL HMS Affray Submariners 3
D HMS Hermes Farewell Current Affairs 5
R HMS L10 History 2
N Warship Series 1 HMS Illustrious Films, Music, TV & All Things Artsy 1
soleil FB: HMS President - ‘Dunker’ Training At RNAS Yeovilton Royal Naval Reserve (RNR) 5
R Phase 2 training at HMS Sultan Joining the Royal Navy 0
soleil Naval Technology: "HMS Prince of Wales to begin F-35 trials in January 2021" The Fleet 1
soleil FB: RN - Liverpool: 18-year-old Sailor Rhys Gets A Birthday Surprise From His Family On Board HMS Prince Of Wales The Fleet 0
soleil FB: HMNB Portsmouth: Seven Sprightly WW2 Veterans Visit HMS Queen Elizabeth The Fleet 9
BillyNoMates HMS INTREPID - scrapping. History 0
BillyNoMates V(S)TOL, on HMS DASHER? Diamond Lil's 9
soleil Portsmouth News: "Weetabix Advert Stars Gosport Submarine Museum's HMS Alliance" Submariners 8
harbour_cotter HMS TRADEWIND WWII SUBMARINE Submariners 2
soleil FB: HMS Raleigh - A New Recruit By The Name Of Raleigh Bases / Shore Est 4
soleil YT: HMS Northumberland The Fleet 1
soleil Navy News (FB): North Shields - HMS Northumberland - Ship Open To Visitors - Saturday, February 8th 2020 The Fleet 1
MoD_RSS First UK night flights land in HMS Queen Elizabeth MoD News 0
soleil HMS Prince of Wales To Make Inaugural Visit To Liverpool The Fleet 43
soleil FB: HMS Sultan: "It's An Air Engineering First For Accelerated Apprentices" Bases / Shore Est 6
soleil FB: Navy News "HMS Ashanti Ghana 50th Anniversary" History 0
M HMS Raleigh shutdown over Easter Joining the Royal Navy 4
soleil Tw: HMS Cattistock M31 - Second Mine Countermeasures Squadron - Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group 1 The Fleet 0
Bad CO HMS Arrow - Anyone Know Where the Ship's Bell Is? History 17
soleil FB: RN Photographers: British F-35B Lightning Jets Have Flown From HMS Queen Elizabeth In UK Waters Today, 28th January 2020 The Fleet Air Arm 2
soleil Portsmouth News: "RN Suffers 'Embarrassing' Fault With HMS Queen Elizabeth That Delayed UK Sea Trials Of F-35" The Fleet 8
soleil FB: Portsmouth News "What An Amazing Photo Of HMS Queen Elizabeth And HMS Prince Of Wales" Bases / Shore Est 1
soleil RN Website: HMS Raleigh's Physio's Fundraising Mission Bases / Shore Est 0
soleil Aggies: Vacancy For A Lay Pastoral Worker To Work In Support Of Commodore Royal Fleet Auxiliary, HMS Excellent RFA 0
soleil FB: HMNB Devonport: HMS Scott Pauses For Reflection Over One Of The Navy’s Most Hallowed Sites History 2
R Tips and tricks for HMS Raleigh Joining the Royal Navy 19
soleil FB: HMS Raleigh Page: "A Short Video Of The Cornwell27s At Pier Cellars This Week" Bases / Shore Est 0
soleil FB: HMS Raleigh - 80th Anniversary Bases / Shore Est 2
D HMS Raleigh Payroll team Joining the Royal Navy 7
soleil Mail: HMS Defender Seizes £3.3m Haul Of Crystal Meth From Drug Smuggler's Dhow In The Arabian Sea The Fleet 3
soleil FB: HMS Raleigh page - The Twelve Days Of Christmas Bases / Shore Est 1
MoD_RSS HMS Scott provides support for search MoD News 0
soleil i: "'A Fitting Tribute': Second World War Hero's Uniform Pride Of Place On HMS Prince of Wales" History 2
soleil FB: Video Highlights Of Yesterday's Commissioning Ceremony for HMS Prince of Wales - Editing By LPhot Dan Rosenbaum The Fleet 1
soleil Mail: "Divers Uncover Guns, A Mop And Even Bottles Of Booze From British Warship HMS Invincible" History 10
janner HMS Sussex History 0
Similar threads


















































Top