Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by DingDong, Nov 25, 2006.

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  1. Ladies and Gentlemen,

    After having spent hours on an essay about the Falklands campaign, and having read the Board of Inquiry report into the sinking there are a few questions i have.

    I am not Doug Laybourne, so please feel at ease. However if there is anyone out there who can shed some light on a few things then please get in touch.
  2. Dingdong,

    I am sure you can get some sensible replies here, ask away.
  3. Eye,

    I'm not sure what your take on all of this is, however the main thrust of the Lostopos site is that a certain member of the command team wasn't at his post and therefore Sheffield wore a missile becuase of this absence.

    If the AAWO wasn't there, then where was the PWO? He could have dealt with the raid.
    Where was the EWD?
    What was the APS doing?? Ultimately if they were in Air Raid Warning white, then they would have been relaxed - that would have been AAWCs call surely.
    What was the FC doing?

    The Board of inquiry report seems to suggest that the UAA1 wasn't manned properly and if SCOT was in use then they would never have seen the racket. Glasgow's CO banned the use of SCOT during daylight for this reason and that the argies didn't usually fly after dark.

    Does any of this make sense? What's your take on it all? I'm guessing you were there.
  4. I wasn't there as I was having too much fun in Pompey. The AWO was not in the Ops Room and was called back "At the rush" although this was a gross overstatement of his progress. We were left in a situation where the Ops Room was aware of a threat (what their actual SA was has not been put in the public domain. I suspect if it had the calls for Courts Martial would have been overwhelming). The ship was closed up at defence watches, which did not require the PWO to be in the Ops Room. It was however normal procedure for at least one of the senior ops team to be present and this was clearly not the case as the Captain had recently returned to his cabin. No one in the Ops Room believed (correctly) that they had the authority to take countermeasures so none were taken. This procedure was corrected very quickly after the campaign. Sloppy procedure is what got Sheffield sunk.
  5. Thanks for putting that slant on things. I have spoken to someone recently who was in the OPS room of another 42 that was there and he says pretty much the same as you.

    I have very vague collections of Link 10, but never saw it working properly. I'm guessing that Glasgow had pushed out the raid over link, whichever way you look at things, there are different pieces to the argument. Invincible didn't believe what was going on which didn't help.

    I think that the bleats of a cover up are a bit unfounded. Did you end up down south?
  6. Admiral Fieldhouse decided that their would be no Courts Martial because in his belief to do so would lessen the affect of the victory (and upset his political masters). This is reported by Adm Woodward in his book "100 Days". Not all agreed and their were several events for which CM would been entirely justified, the Sheffield loss being the most obvious. Having made the decision that that no CM would take place, the Sheffield BoI was completely emasculated, they could hardly make a recommendation that some officers should be answerable for their actions when that decision was no longer available to them. I have no doubt that many "facts" were deliberately ignored in the BoI to support the desired outcome.
  7. I see. I was kind of wandering that when i read the report. It does seem odd that no charge of negligence was brought about. However, that would have had to look at the CO as well.

    What are your feelings on that? Do you know of anyone that i could chat to from Sheff?? Privatetly that is?

    What is most worrying is that the NBCD organisation seems to have been in very poor order. The main effort seems to have been led by the Chiefs and POs. De-isolation of the firemain, nothwithstanding the fact that the fire pumps were all knackered after the hit, is unforgiveable. I was shocked to be told that there weren't enought ELSAs in those days.
  8. "I was shocked to be told that there weren't enought ELSAs in those days"

    We didnt have any to my knowledge on Hermes & I didnt come across ELSA until asked by the DLC doing evening rounds on Invincible in 85, when he asked me to demonstrate how to use one, I told him honestly I didnt have a clue & didnt know what they were for, so much for training!

    Try asking the people concerned on here,
  9. The ELSA was not introduced until 84ish
  10. So what did they have before ELSA?
  11. A deep breath if I remember rightly
  12. I see, i couldn't make it out why the computer room crew were all asphyxiated but now it makes sense. Poor souls.

    famine, were you there?
  13. Eye - With regards to Courts Martials I would have thought a CM in regard to GLAMORGAN would have been the most obvious as she was passing through the known Exocet shore battery danger area at the time............
  14. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    which would have made 2 as a the CO and NO were awaiting one for a grounding in the Gulf....
  15. Indeed..................
  16. I was on Invincible during the Falklands War, and just after the Sheffield was hit, we had installed around and about below decks, small single bottle breathing apparatus.(The bottle wasn't much bigger than, those that use to power the old P-27 Dry powder extinguishers) Not enough for everyone though. On our flat, I think there was about 6 units. There were 7 (?) x 6 man senior rate cabins on that flat.
    Around that time too, they said that, you could probably make it to the topside, if you wore you respirator for the exit, but not to re-enter. ????
  17. If the Exocet was anywhere near Eliza Cove where intel said it was then yes. If UAA-1 had picked it up from launch (despite it being active) then yes. If Glamorgan had taken no defensive measures then yes. Unfortunately none of the above were true and BTW, the CMs on both officers had been cancelled before the Exocet hit.
  18. Just wanted to say i agree with this quote as we were with the Glamorgan in this instance and if they had taken notice of the warnings she was given then "maybe" she would not have been hit by that Exocet.Made me very angry at time but nothing we could do but help with the aftermath.Told by our CO to keep our feelings to ourselves! What a cover-up!
  19. I think you will find that the fire pumps were out of action due to the design faults around the isolation of the firemain and the loss of electrical supplies.
    ELSA was not standard issue around the ship but there was some emergency breathing kits in the machinery spaces(but no where else on the ships at that time). the last firepump was the rover gas turbine and this a history of being unreliable and difficult to start even in calm exercise coditions.
    As for "the NBCD organisation seems to have been in very poor order. The main effort seems to have been led by the Chiefs and POs" How can you criticise an organisation who had been trained with examples based on events during WW2 This was the first loss of a British warship for many years. and the Chiefs and POs ARE there to lead.
    At the end of the day most people who sailed to the Falklands did not think there would be any kind of action at all never mind the sinking of ships and the Sheffield brought a stark wake up to everybody.
  20. Hi I was on Brilliant in 1982,saw the after affects of the Shefield amongst others,what you have to realise lessons learnt in WW2 on the NBCD side,had been forgotten by 82,the navy did write a BR about lessons learnt which on reading should have been called things we shouldn't have forgotten!! having served in the Gulf 91 campaign as well I have seen NBCD improve imensely.
    In the Falklands we were in 2 x-ray so closing down to zulu took time,if I remember rightly firemain was not isolated untill action stations,we were wearing 8's and overalls made out of manmade fibres,the list goes on and on,basically we were re learning as each day past.

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