History of damage control and fire fighting (and 1982)

#21
FlagWagger said:
PINCH said:
Pussers hard has a melting point 20 Deg C below that of Ali.... Thus watch the soap when it starts to run Open the Boundry cooling. keep applying until soap stops running. Less water to pump out , and boundry cooling was on and off. Bastaards never gave me a Herbert lot for that.
Another thing about boundary cooling - the Fire School at Phoenix seemed only to be geared up to FF/DD and above platforms, where boundary cooling was achieved by means of hoses. On one of my BSSCs years ago, the Phoenix staff were nonplussed when they heard of the small ship approach (as used in 10MCM in the late 80s) which was to use wet deck cloths applied directly to bulkhead with the water being taken from a pusser's bucket. This approach didn't appear in any official pubs either, but when you're on a small platform with limited hydrants/hoses/BASCCA etc you have to rely on any soltion to hand - and lets face it, the ship is floating in an ideal boundary cooling solution! The task of obtaining buckets of sea-water for boundary cooling was also a good spare hand task too.

Here, here!!! Showers turned on and aimed at the bulkheads was always a good one
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#22
onewatchtoomany said:
FlagWagger said:
when you're on a small platform with limited hydrants/hoses/BASCCA etc you have to rely on any soltion to hand - and lets face it, the ship is floating in an ideal boundary cooling solution! The task of obtaining buckets of sea-water for boundary cooling was also a good spare hand task too.

Here, here!!! Showers turned on and aimed at the bulkheads was always a good one
GRP is a bit of a different priority on MWV as unlike steel it insulates rather than conducts.

The problem on MWV boundary cooling had to be resolved as the individual tended to feel a tad inadequate armed with a damp cloth if a fire broke out in the same compartment being cooled (as happened on Hurworth). Centre-Fed Hose Reels were then introduced as a sustainable means of boundary cooling and firefighting. Controlable 'Y- pieces' were also introduced to enable multi-hose runs. Buckets for boundary cooling are no longer trained however the real event may demand some improvisation.

As for showers left switched on - the fresh water tanks on MWV's have very limited capacity unlike the big saltwater ready-use tank that the ship is floating in. The other thing is that the showers are usually aluminium/melamine lined with an air gap between the shower lining & the GRP hull, together with a ceramic tiled (insulating) deck in the bathrooms. Turning a shower on is not particularly effective unless the article on fire is in a bucket actually in the shower, to be honest. FOST MPV may see it different, but that's my view.
 
#25
Can anyone give a rough estimate of how many BA (ICABA?) sets on RN ships in 1982 (or earlier), especially T42 / T21 ?

Have seen various sources stating HMS Sheffield had either 5 or 10 sets with very limited duration (10 minutes each?).

Any info on BA sets / spare bottles / duration / charging points / number of smoke masks would be handy.

Still to hit the National Archives to look for the official answer, but a heads-up is always good!

Have read through the 'Freedom of Information' stuff on the Sheffield which is spot on for what I want (except the BA info).

Trust the septics to have an online museum and NBCD TV covering this stuff!: http://www.dcfp.navy.mil/index.htm
Also, was there no smoke curtains fitted at all?
 
#26
Hope you got your degree super stoker..
Help on an allied subject please gentlefolk.
I left in 1990 and am clearly borderline 'old fart' now so the memory is fading.
Can anyone clarify the action conditions for me? eg. condition 1 zulu alpha as I recall was the highest state of readiness with all vents and ALL watertight doors closed.....or was it?
I was then thinking about condition 1 x-ray or yankee and trying to work my way through what was closed and what wasn't.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
#27
State is personnel, condition is watertight/gastight integrity.

State 3 - Peacetime
State 2 - Defence Watches (heightened readiness - usually 50% crewing)
State 1 - Action Stations

Condition X-Ray - all below waterline and collision bulkhead doors/hatches closed. (Red openings are high risk but could be X-Ray or Yankee)
Condition Yankee - All X/Y & Red Openings closed - usually used for entering/leaving harbour & RAS
Condition Zulu - All hinged watertight closures shut (X,Y&Z)
Alfa - Gas-tight openings for CBRN transit with "R" recirc/closings configured to ensure all air is filtered when entering from outside and an internal pressure is maintained within the citadel.

3X peacetime cruising watches
3Y peacetime Special Sea Dutymen closed-up and DC patrols for RAS, entering/leaving harbour, fog, Officer of the Watch Manoeuvres etc.
2Y Defence Cruising with DC patrols
1Zulu was conventional action stations
1Zula Alfa was CBRN action stations
1Xray & 1Yankee were usually temporary states to revert the ship back to peacetime cruising from the action state.

Doubtless someone will say it's all changed now due to the EU, Donald Trump or something.
 
#28
State 1 is Action stations
State 2 is Defence watches
State 3 is Cruising watches.

Condition is the ship's watertight and gas tight integrity:

Zulu Alpha All doors, hatches and vents marked XYZ and A are closed, except those marked 'may be left open in Action' or vents marked open in Alpha. All vents marked R open.

Zulu All doors and hatches marked XYZ are closed, except those marked 'may be left open in Action'

Yankee All doors and hatches marked XY are closed except for those marked

X-Ray All doors and hatches marked X closed.

Pipe 'Close all red openings'. Close all doors and hatches marked with a red flash on the corner.
 
#30
Peace time running deep away from land all Bulk Head and tunnel doors open.

Any reason or close to land etc. tunnels doors shut

Entering harbour, action stations etc. all bulk head and tunnel doors shut

Various vent states depending on what was happening

Hope that helps
 
B

Billy Q

Guest
#36
Hello there, help needed please!

An ex-stoker here, doing the tax-dodging mature student thing (thoroughly recommended!) Just about to start bringing a research proposal together for my third year dissertation, and fancied doing something on damage control and firefighting, particularly the lessons from 1982. It’s early days yet, so my ideas include contacting the HAVOC / DRIU units (presuming they still exist!), as well as the RN museum.

Has anyone out there got any handy tips and hints for researching this topic? Any books you can recommend? Any comments on how things were / have improved DC/FF wise?

As stated earlier, am an ex-stoker (87-96) and served on a couple of Leanders and a Type 23, so I shouldn’t be totally clueless!

Amongst the issues I might look at include the Type 21’s aluminium superstructure, lack of ELSA’s in 1982, and the failure of the Rover gas turbines. Any ideas if these were major factors in loss of ships / men or were they urban myths?

Any help greatly appreciated, as are derogatory statements about students! :wink:
Before our ships were made of inferior Chinese steel it used to be:-

Watertight

In Peace

Harbour and normal cruising………. Condition X (X openings closed)

Dangerous circumstances
( e.g. navigational hazards, mines)…… Condition Y (X and Y closed)

Exercises…………… As required


In War

Defended harbour, refitting, etc………… Condition X (X closed)

Undefended harbour, cruising…………….. Condition Y (X and Y closed)

Action or relaxed action…… Condition Z (X, Y and Z closed)
 
#40
Peace time running deep away from land all Bulk Head and tunnel doors open.

Any reason or close to land etc. tunnels doors shut

Entering harbour, action stations etc. all bulk head and tunnel doors shut

Various vent states depending on what was happening

Hope that helps
You mean Containment State Illegal ;)
 
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