History of damage control and fire fighting (and 1982)

Discussion in 'History' started by SS-super-stoker, Apr 3, 2007.

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  1. Hello there, help needed please!

    An ex-stoker here, doing the tax-dodging mature student thing (thoroughly recommended!) Just about to start bringing a research proposal together for my third year dissertation, and fancied doing something on damage control and firefighting, particularly the lessons from 1982. It’s early days yet, so my ideas include contacting the HAVOC / DRIU units (presuming they still exist!), as well as the RN museum.

    Has anyone out there got any handy tips and hints for researching this topic? Any books you can recommend? Any comments on how things were / have improved DC/FF wise?

    As stated earlier, am an ex-stoker (87-96) and served on a couple of Leanders and a Type 23, so I shouldn’t be totally clueless!

    Amongst the issues I might look at include the Type 21’s aluminium superstructure, lack of ELSA’s in 1982, and the failure of the Rover gas turbines. Any ideas if these were major factors in loss of ships / men or were they urban myths?

    Any help greatly appreciated, as are derogatory statements about students! :wink:
  2. I remember doing damage control while at HMS Raleigh in 1963. There was a mock up of a ships internals and water would pour through holes which then had to be plugged with mattresses, wood etc. Emergency lighting had to be rigged, pumps started etcetera. Brilliant.
  3. Send me your email address via pm, and I will send you all the powerpoint material from the NBCD Q's course (or rather CBRNDC Q's course as it now known as)
    It's all pretty fresh, but has a good section on lessons learnt from various incidents including Notty & the rock..
  4. Not sureif it's of any use, but the BOI report into the loss of the Sheffield can be downloaded from the RNA 10 Area website

    Hope this helps,

  5. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Bloody clankys - give them a stand easy and they need retraining afterwards! :)

    I have in my possession a dated copy of BR4007, the Guide to Ship Firefighting (1988 version) if its any use to you.
  6. Handy tips ! FRP Brace,Brace,Brace, Good luck at school!!
  7. No sleep for me tonight! I loved that stuff!! Bonus if a SA,CK or STWD,had to deal with it!!

    Fun to watch!!
  8. Super, It all started way back...1940/41.
    Ark Royal, which had been sunk countless times by Dr. Goebbels, finally went off Gib, after one torpedo strike. They could have saved her, so 'DC' became the new god.

    The Yanks, who at first were way behind, learned rapidly especially re the vulnerable Carriers.
    Quote from loss of USS Lexington at Battle of Coral Sea in early '42 -
    "Lexington was struck by a torpedo to port. Seconds later, a second torpedo hit to port directly abreast the bridge. At the same time, she took three bomb hits from enemy dive bombers, producing a 7 degree list to port and several raging fires.
    By 1300 her skilled damage control parties had brought the fires under control and returned the ship to even keel; making 25 knots, she was ready to recover her air group. Then suddenly was shaken by a tremendous explosion, caused by the ignition of gasoline vapors below, and again fire raged out of control. She was abandoned."
  9. Thanks for the tips people, will be chasing them up! :D
  10. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Hmmn "SS Stoker" eh? Yup me too. At risk of teaching you to suck eggs, in addition to BR4007 (Ship's Guide to FF), BR2170 Vol 3 has Corporate Lessons Learned. Main points were: Poor Smoke Containment (Smoke Curtains), Lack of Escape BA (ELSA), Poor protective clothing (Introduction FR Number 8s/4s & Action Coveralls), Poor firemain management (numbering of valves & Battle overides on fixed HPSW), Short duration BA (Introduction of BASCCA to replace ICABA & subsequently EDBA), Inadequate Fire-fighting training (Introducion of NBCD 12- 2 day FF for all rates in all trades, followed by intro of ISSC & BSSC), Inadequate portable FF pumps (Rover GT replacements), Poor control of Foam generating nozzles & inadequate supplies of AFFF (Introduction of MkII FB5-X, FBU-5X inline inductor, 50% increase in AFFF holdings). Good luck mate!
  11. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Forgot to mention - burning Aluminium- load of pooh! (Urban mythological beastie) However, Jet Spray nozzles on Jet (Now called waterwall nozzles) could & did punch holes clean through hot aluminium superstructure.
  12. Hi, SS-super-stoker (and others)

    Not sure if it's still of any use, the BOI into the loss of RFAs Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram can be downloaded from the RNA 10 website.

  13. They also made lots of little changes that went on to make life a bit easier, as already mentioned BASCCA replaced the far more difficult to use ICABA (switching valves and bottle feeds), on the HPSWM they changes the valves from twisty turny ones that seemed to take ages to get fully open to a simple handle that you only had to turn through 90 degrees, the introduction of ELSA which was used to great effect during the Illustrious fire of 86 and others I'm sure.

    Thats all I can remember now.
  14. If you have access to the National Archive at Kew, check class ADM 267 - Reports of Loss and damage to HM Ships - loads of reports and BoI reports, plus diagrams and recommendations. Spent many a happy hour reading some of these when I worked for MoD in the Records Department: if you're interested in a particular WW II ship, PM me and I'll dig out the references.
  15. I did'nt join til 83, so all the new DC gear was just coming in then Apparently, pre corporate, smoke clearance was a complete black art. Bearing in mind the amount of progress we've made in that area(Fixed SCEF RAM Fans}, and the number of casualties in 82 from smoke inhalation, that would be a good basis for your research proposal. Good luck anyay.
  16. By putting a line of pussers hard on the Ali bulkhead, you could monitor its temperature.

    Pussers hard has a melting point 20 Deg C below that of Ali.... Thus watch the soap when it starts to run Open the Boundry cooling. keep applying until soap stops running. Less water to pump out , and boundry cooling was on and off. Bastaards never gave me a Herbert lot for that.

    Damage Repair Instructional UNIT (DRIU) at Reliegh and Pheonix, considered to be the best bit of training tackle Ever Bought... I have to agree.

    Good luck with you disertation Mate
  17. When ELSA was introduced on board nobody told me how to use it! despite having done the fire fighting/nbc course.
    OOD did round on Invincible (84) was told to instruct the mess how to operate it - didn't have a clue.
  18. FlagWagger

    FlagWagger Book Reviewer

    Another thing about boundary cooling - the Fire School at Phoenix seemed only to be geared up to FF/DD and above platforms, where boundary cooling was achieved by means of hoses. On one of my BSSCs years ago, the Phoenix staff were nonplussed when they heard of the small ship approach (as used in 10MCM in the late 80s) which was to use wet deck cloths applied directly to bulkhead with the water being taken from a pusser's bucket. This approach didn't appear in any official pubs either, but when you're on a small platform with limited hydrants/hoses/BASCCA etc you have to rely on any soltion to hand - and lets face it, the ship is floating in an ideal boundary cooling solution! The task of obtaining buckets of sea-water for boundary cooling was also a good spare hand task too.
  19. Cheers for all the replies guys, still chasing everything up.

    Interesting reading about this stuff from the safety of the uni library! :dwarf:

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