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Hermes and which ship and date & Glamorgan in Falklands

R05well

Midshipman
Hi.

i am researching some aspects of the Falklands war for a project I am currently developing. The main one I am working in at the moment is the Glamorgan v Daggers on the 1st May 1982, which has two very different versions of events depending on which side of the fence you sit on. The RN version is it was bombed by one aircraft, had rockets fired at it, while the other side claim it had two aircraft drop bombs on it, and they were no rockets involved, one of the pilots then went on to strafe Arrow. Are there any Glamorgan veteran on here?

Secondly, I came across this photo, which appears to show Hermes being sailed by by illustrious (CIWS fitted so can't be Vince). Does anyone know the background to this photo?

 
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CrashCrew

Lantern Swinger
I always thought Glamorgan had been hit by an Exocet fired from shore ?
Wikipedia, In the last days of the war Argentine navy technicians fired a land-based MM-38 Exocet missile causing damage and killing 14 sailors. She was refitted in late 1982.
 

R05well

Midshipman
I always thought Glamorgan had been hit by an Exocet fired from shore ?
Wikipedia, In the last days of the war Argentine navy technicians fired a land-based MM-38 Exocet missile causing damage and killing 14 sailors. She was refitted in late 1982.

She was, as described in the excellent book by Ian Inskip "ordeal by Exocet". However, on 1st of May she had a couple of bombs put other side of her while on NGS with Alacrity and Arrow. I am trying to figure out exactly what happened as the accounts from either side are different and have some holes in them.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
i am researching some aspects of the Falklands war for a project I am currently developing. The main one I am working in at the moment is the Glamorgan v Daggers on the 1st May 1982, which has two very different versions of events depending on which side of the fence you sit on. The RN version is it was bombed by one aircraft, had rockets fired at it, while the other side claim it had two aircraft drop bombs on it, and they were no rockets involved, one of the pilots then went on to strafe Arrow. Are there any Glamorgan veteran on here?
Not Glamorgan,(Argonaut) but the best reference source, I've found is David Brown's "The Royal Navy & the Falklands War" He was Head of the RN Historical Branch and a pretty authoritative source whereas I find "those who were there" may remember it a little different, thirty-odd years later. I do myself.

He describes this incident as follows:

David Brown said:
"By now the Argentine Air Force had an idea where the Carrier Battle Group was operating.

From the mainland bases, twenty eight A-4's and six Canberras took off, as well as a dozen Daggers, not all of which were armed with bombs. Those that reached the Falklands - 25 of the 46, according to Argentine sources - began to appear on the ship's radar screens from mid afternoon as the Glamorgan group came within 4.5in gun range of Port stanley airfield.

CAP then intercept several aircraft which are described in detail.

David Brown said:
The three ships, led by Captain M E BarrowRN, were just completing the first leg of a bombardment of Port Stanley airfield, firing airburst shells over defensive positions and on the buildings. As they turned away before beginning another run, spotters in Glamorgan saw the destruction of Garcia Cuerva's Mirage and then, too late, the three Daggers as they came in right down on the sea at seven miles a minute. None of the ships, , each of which was singled-out by one Dagger, was able to fire a Seacat and only Commander CJS Craig's Alactrity got one of its bridge machine guns into action. The Daggers fired their 30mm cannon before before releasing two 1,000lb parachute-retarded bombs as they crossed their targets and made-off. The Glamorgan and Alacrity were near missed, the latter sustaining minor shock damage which was quickly rectified. Not until she was docked on return to the UK, was the extent of the Glamorgans underwater damage realised, but in the meantime the extensively dished plates gave no trouble. The strafing caused superficial damage to the Glamorgan and Arrow and wounded the latter's Seacat aimer. The Daggers returned safely to base

If I remember correctly the injured Seacat aimer was an AB Dillon (I think), one of our first casualties.
 
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R05well

Midshipman
Lusty gave us a sail past on our way back from the FI - if i remember she was off Portland doing her work ups.
Hi Whyman

I don't know if you were on Hermes before Corporate, but would you be able to put a date on this photo of Hermes at Portsmouth with a pre Falklands Vince in the background (no CIWS) and SHAR in pre war livery with white undersides? As there are only 5, which was the peacetime quota, I assume that it's leaving or arriving in Portsmouth around an exercise.

 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Herpes left the Falklands on 1st July and arrived home on 21st July. Lusty arrived on station 27th August to take over from Invince.
 

R05well

Midshipman
Not Glamorgan,(Argonaut) but the best reference source, I've found is David Brown's "The Royal Navy & the Falklands War" He was Head of the RN Historical Branch and a pretty authoritative source whereas I find "those who were there" may remember it a little different, thirty-odd years later. I do myself.

He describes this incident as follows:



CAP then intercept several aircraft which are described in detail.



If I remember correctly the injured Seacat aimer was an AB Dillon (I think), one of our first casualties.
Hi Ninja

I am trying to correlate the UK version you have described with the version of the argentine pilots. The leader Dimeglo, assigned each pilot a ship, but then mistakenly himself attacked the wrong one, Glamorgan in stead of Arrow. So according to their accounts he dropped his bombs on the Glamorgan, and then during the exit, realising his mistake, filled the side of Arrow with 30mm canon. Aguirre Faget also claims to have dropped bombs on Glamorgan, while Roman attacked Alacrity with Bombs. The descriptions I have read in Inskips book also mentions that rockets were fired during the attack, which were not carried by the Daggers. Hence the differences. Also eye witnesses on Glamorgan mention a dagger firing cannon, dropping parachute retarded bombs and then firing cannon again in the same pass. Impossible in my opinion.

thanks

a
 
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I joined in 81 - we did a Yank tour then a Norway deployment just before corporate, but dates ????? -
Hi Whyman

I don't know if you were on Hermes before Corporate, but would you be able to put a date on this photo of Hermes at Portsmouth with a pre Falklands Vince in the background (no CIWS) and SHAR in pre war livery with white undersides? As there are only 5, which was the peacetime quota, I assume that it's leaving or arriving in Portsmouth around an exercise.

 

dapperdunn

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Hi Whyman

I don't know if you were on Hermes before Corporate, but would you be able to put a date on this photo of Hermes at Portsmouth with a pre Falklands Vince in the background (no CIWS) and SHAR in pre war livery with white undersides? As there are only 5, which was the peacetime quota, I assume that it's leaving or arriving in Portsmouth around an exercise.
My Bold

I thought all the SHARs went down south painted in pre war livery and were painmted on the way down?

I'm positive that Sharkey Ward mentions this in his book.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
I am trying to correlate the UK version you have described with the version of the argentine pilots. The leader Dimeglo, assigned each pilot a ship, but then mistakenly himself attacked the wrong one, Glamorgan in stead of Arrow. So according to their accounts he dropped his bombs on the Glamorgan, and then during the exit, realising his mistake, filled the side of Arrow with 30mm canon. Aguirre Faget also claims to have dropped bombs on Glamorgan, while Roman attacked Alacrity with Bombs. The descriptions I have read in Inskips book also mentions that rockets were fired during the attack, which were not carried by the Daggers. Hence the differences. Also eye witnesses on Glamorgan mention a dagger firing cannon, dropping parachute retarded bombs and then firing cannon again in the same pass. Impossible in my opinion.

thanks

a
Hmmn, a squirt of cannon on the inbound bombing run seemed par for the course. After "bombs gone" ("shoot'n'scoot") seems less likely unless there a second-ship on the flightpath as the aircraft puts on the afterburners.

Certainly when in bomb alley, three weeks later, our upperdecks were liberally sprinkled with 20 or 30mm cartridge cases as they dropped from the overflying aircraft. The aircraft itself would have finished it's attack on us and would've been firing at the next ship in it's sights, ditching the empty shell cases from beneath it's wings. Many of the lads went on deck afterwards and picked-up empty aircraft cartridge cases as souvenirs, I did myself, but ditched them when locker searches were threatened on the way home.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
arrow-3.jpg

Just to add, I remember watching Arrow arriving back in Guzz with the Red Arrows doing a fly-past as a salute. The funnel had a big hole in it from this particular attack. What amused us, as we stood on the jetty by the sheds (Argonaut went straight into dock upon return) was there was a big square of different-coloured paint (undercoat?) surrounding the cannon hole where the crew had obviously removed the damage repair riveted plate to show-off its "war wounds" as it made its triumphant return. :pirat:
 
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It was the day before we got in - you can see on the photo all the aircraft getting postioned - we cleared lower deck for the salute, then went in circles all night, until we anchored to recieve "maggie" before we entered harbour.
 

R05well

Midshipman
My Bold

I thought all the SHARs went down south painted in pre war livery and were painmted on the way down?

I'm positive that Sharkey Ward mentions this in his book.

They were painted on the way down, but this photo is not of the ships leaving on Corporate. If you look at photos of Hermes leaving on that trip there were 11 SHAR on deck. This photos shows her with her normal peacetime compliment of just 5 SHAR and 12 sea king (although I can count 16 on the deck in this photo), which must be from the period after her refit to a ASW Carrier from 1980 to June 1981.

Thanks
 
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The vince did not go with us on any of these tours, - i would say (due to the number 0f helo's) this was our deployment to Norway winter 81/82 (marine training) cant remember what they where called at the time - the grey paint was painted all the way down to the sea over the weekend before we left for FI.
 

scouse

War Hero
My book states that the Daggers could carry Two Shafrir missiles!!! Or The old type sidewinder .......this one is carrying Shafrir missiles .ps I don't know what her mission or role was on that day, but they could carry missiles.
 

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