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help im a sinking ship!

seafruit

Badgeman
ok guys heres whats going on im in phase 2 training of aet and its not going well have failed my exams and am looking at getting kicked off the course. am loving it in the navy and i dont want to leave am i allowed to branch change to something of my choice. or are they going to discharge me. my pvr dat is up in august. HELP!
 

slim

War Hero
What is the problem?
Is it that you do not understand the course?
That you spend too long in the bar?
The course is beyond your capabilities?
the message surely is that if you don't understand ask. Is extra dogwatch instruction no longer available? Are you putting in 100%.
Too many fail because they either do not put in the effort and relax (play) too much after leaving Raleigh, or they do not understand the tuition and are afraid too ask for it to be explained again. Perhaps things have changed since my time but courses were designed to be passed, not failed.
Have a word with your instructors to see if some extra tuition is available.
However if is obvious that you have been slacking then why should they put themselves out
 

SILVER_FOX

War Hero
I agree with slim; if you really want to stay then fight for it. See your DO and tell him / her that you are desperate to stay and ask for a direct and honest appraisal of what it is they believe you need to do to turn this around. Finally - and this bit is the most important part - actually take notice of the advice and direction they give you and do it. Willingness will carry you a long way in the eyes of those who control your destiny.

Good luck.

SF
 

seafruit

Badgeman
the thing is i do study and i understand the coursework but everytime i sit the exams when i think alls went well it hasnt. just done ops nd movements and it doesnt look bright ahead of me.
 

Guzzler

War Hero
seafruit - there seems to be quite a high failure rate for AETs. If you have been putting the effort in but are still unable to make the grade as an AET there is usually an option to transfer. Quite a few coming through the submarine school at Raleigh have re-categorised from AET. Speak to your DO. Good luck.
 

Polto

War Hero
Guzzler said:
seafruit - there seems to be quite a high failure rate for AETs. If you have been putting the effort in but are still unable to make the grade as an AET there is usually an option to transfer. Quite a few coming through the submarine school at Raleigh have re-categorised from AET. Speak to your DO. Good luck.

Yes - this is true - however please do not assume that the submarine course is non-technical. It's challenging and deservedly so however the support you get really is second to none.
 

slim

War Hero
shag_shacker said:
Guzzler said:
Sorry polto, I didn't mean to infer that at all :salut:

oh yes you did - otherwise why would the pass mark for ET(ME) be 40% and AET 50%

Perhaps if too high a percentage are failing AET the pass make should be raised to 60%?
 
slim said:
shag_shacker said:
Guzzler said:
Sorry polto, I didn't mean to infer that at all :salut:

oh yes you did - otherwise why would the pass mark for ET(ME) be 40% and AET 50%

Perhaps if too high a percentage are failing AET the pass make should be raised to 60%?

totally agree - i think

when i came through tiffs course the pass mark for a lot of the exams was 70%. even then still only a few failed a single module over 2 1/2 years. nowadays it is a good week if someone is'nt knocking on my door for an exam failure chat.

this must be a reflection on the standards of lads joining up.

50% pass mark is a 1 in 2 chance that the a/c might make it back to mother
 

Guzzler

War Hero
The percentage required for a pass mark is immaterial though. It's relative and impossible to compare the two.

If an examination consists of writing your name and address, 90% should be easily attainable. If it consists of listing the Kings and Queens of England (no idea where I plucked that from!), for many people, 90% would be a very good result.
 

slim

War Hero
shag_shacker said:
slim said:
shag_shacker said:
Guzzler said:
Sorry polto, I didn't mean to infer that at all :salut:

oh yes you did - otherwise why would the pass mark for ET(ME) be 40% and AET 50%

Perhaps if too high a percentage are failing AET the pass make should be raised to 60%?

totally agree - i think

when i came through tiffs course the pass mark for a lot of the exams was 70%. even then still only a few failed a single module over 2 1/2 years. nowadays it is a good week if someone is'nt knocking on my door for an exam failure chat.

this must be a reflection on the standards of lads joining up.

50% pass mark is a 1 in 2 chance that the a/c might make it back to mother

Perhaps the real reason is the combining of the branch. In the past we had Tiffs/Mechs and the mechanic stream. I was a lowly mechanic starting as an REM and ending as a POREL, well an POAEM(R) as it came to be known.
This system worked extremely well for many years. The powers that be thn decide to have just the AET branch, and not only that until promotion to killick, the AET will carry out all trades.
So is it the AET a Jack of all trades and master on none?
Was it a retrograde step to do this?
Is it more cost effective?
 

Karma

War Hero
seafruit said:
the thing is i do study and i understand the coursework but everytime i sit the exams when i think alls went well it hasnt.

If the issue is that you don't perform well in exams, then regardless of which branch one might be that will continue to be an issue. If you understand the subjects, but are unable to reflect that in an exam situation, then it might be worth spending some time looking at your exam technique. I appreciate that doesn't help much with your imediate situation, but if the issue is with technique, rather than topic, then branch changing is unlikely to help, as Polto rightly points out the alternative is as demanding in its own right.
 

slim

War Hero
Karma said:
seafruit said:
the thing is i do study and i understand the coursework but everytime i sit the exams when i think alls went well it hasnt.

If the issue is that you don't perform well in exams, then regardless of which branch one might be that will continue to be an issue. If you understand the subjects, but are unable to reflect that in an exam situation, then it might be worth spending some time looking at your exam technique. I appreciate that doesn't help much with your imediate situation, but if the issue is with technique, rather than topic, then branch changing is unlikely to help, as Polto rightly points out the alternative is as demanding in its own right.

Karma
Agree with you on exam technique. In the FAA tiffs had to sit a rather difficult board to progress from PO to CPO. Many failed several times. Most stations would set up classes in Exam Technique in an effort to he guys. Possibly it would be worthwhile training establishments running similar classes.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
The problem with the extremely high AET fail rate is extremely easily solved.

The additional mathematics test (the one that AET's and Artificers used to have to pass) needs to be re-introduced or the Recruiting Test score required for AET needs to be raised significantly in order that those entering training have a realistic career expectation of being able to pass phase two training.
 
Ninja_Stoker said:
The problem with the extremely high AET fail rate is extremely easily solved.

The additional mathematics test (the one that AET's and Artificers used to have to pass) needs to be re-introduced or the Recruiting Test score required for AET needs to be raised significantly in order that those entering training have a realistic career expectation of being able to pass phase two training.

Firstly - nice job on the thread title there, seafruit - very nice!

Secondly, NJ, the test hardly made a blind bit of difference when it came to DCAE: the amount of people failing back in '04 (when the test was still conducted to be selected for what was fast-becoming the AET trade) was still staggering. I know, I was there!

I don't know what they can do to solve the problem other than perhaps giving you more than a day to learn something, study it, then regurgitate it onto paper.

Or perhaps it was the "memory recall" that had people failing, with questions like "what procedures should be carried out in the cleaning of an aircraft?" to which an answer would be a test of how well one could recall 5000 steps in the correct order (even though it's mostly simple, common sense - you still had to have it in the correct order!); a little too ****, one would have to say.

And let's face it - the maths test was hardly difficult: a couple of "advanced" fractions thrown into the pot, coupled with the odd factorisation, or a basic differentiation/ integration question (easily revised for as you didn't require any understanding of what d(y) by d(x) actually did - you simply had to follow the simple one/ two steps to get an answer). A better way of sorting the issue, if it was to be tested, would be a better understanding of theory, rather than maths - of which Phase II doesn't have a whole lot of anyway.

-djmm
 

Polto

War Hero
slim said:
shag_shacker said:
slim said:
shag_shacker said:

Perhaps the real reason is the combining of the branch. In the past we had Tiffs/Mechs and the mechanic stream. I was a lowly mechanic starting as an REM and ending as a POREL, well an POAEM(R) as it came to be known.
This system worked extremely well for many years. The powers that be thn decide to have just the AET branch, and not only that until promotion to killick, the AET will carry out all trades.
So is it the AET a Jack of all trades and master on none?
Was it a retrograde step to do this?
Is it more cost effective?

In my opinion, this post highlights what is today symptomatic with most if not all the engineering disciplines of the RN. Watering down of standards, techniques and abilities in addition to the fading away and loss of the expertise. Only after it is virtually too late does realisation set in that the original system or structure had less problems that the new fangled 'cheap budget busting replacement'.

Well noted Slim.
 
Polto said:
slim said:
shag_shacker said:
slim said:
shag_shacker said:

Perhaps the real reason is the combining of the branch. In the past we had Tiffs/Mechs and the mechanic stream. I was a lowly mechanic starting as an REM and ending as a POREL, well an POAEM(R) as it came to be known.
This system worked extremely well for many years. The powers that be thn decide to have just the AET branch, and not only that until promotion to killick, the AET will carry out all trades.
So is it the AET a Jack of all trades and master on none?
Was it a retrograde step to do this?
Is it more cost effective?

In my opinion, this post highlights what is today symptomatic with most if not all the engineering disciplines of the RN. Watering down of standards, techniques and abilities in addition to the fading away and loss of the expertise. Only after it is virtually too late does realisation set in that the original system or structure had less problems that the new fangled 'cheap budget busting replacement'.

Well noted Slim.

although i cannot quote on the record as i was spoken too off the record moves maybe afoot to reintroduce badged AET's post PPE due to the fact that lads are coming here with v.little Av experienec due to the amount of time grubbering and not iaw thier taskbook. a good step if you want my opinion.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
djmarkmclachlan said:

Secondly, NJ, the test hardly made a blind bit of difference when it came to DCAE: the amount of people failing back in '04 (when the test was still conducted to be selected for what was fast-becoming the AET trade) was still staggering. I know, I was there!

I don't know what they can do to solve the problem other than perhaps giving you more than a day to learn something, study it, then regurgitate it onto paper.

Or perhaps it was the "memory recall" that had people failing, with questions like "what procedures should be carried out in the cleaning of an aircraft?" to which an answer would be a test of how well one could recall 5000 steps in the correct order (even though it's mostly simple, common sense - you still had to have it in the correct order!); a little too ****, one would have to say.

My suggestion was based on the opinions of several Phase Two AET instructors opinions over the last 5 years, who are better placed to judge than myself. My apologies for not making that clear.

The other obvious issue is that the RAF AET counterparts require 5 GCSE's in addition to passing the RAF recruiting test and are rewarded by being paid on the higher pay band from the outset.

Basically it seems we are trying to make artificers in all but name but without raising the bar for selection. The "bar" with regard recruiting test scores and phase two exam questions is dictated by the AET Branch incidentally, no-one else.

The answer lies within as the part-scores in the recruiting test, be it reasoning, literacy, numeracy or mechanical comprehension are set by the branch at the lowest possible level to ensure maximum phase two passes.

The sole purpose of the Recruiting Test is to allow flexibility of selection when there are training changes & it exists to ensure the applicant has the intellectual capacity to pass phase two training.

If trainees aren't passing training, logic (so that's that out of the window!) suggests that either you make phase two training easier or make selection harder so you get what you need and don't put people through the trauma of becoming a "sinking ship".
 
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