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Hello Sailor

PompeySailor said:
The RN will always change, otherwise it will die. It just gets on my tits when all we ever hear is "in my day", when their day is dead and gone. They still live in the days of The Cruel Sea, and have no concept of how things have changed. In fact, many of the currently serving have no idea of how things have changed. They mank and moan, and don't want to see a bigger picture - and this moaning gets transmitted to the junior rates who carry on the tradition of moaning without information.

You are of course quite right. Even so it is the place of those who were there before to question the changes and perhaps to pass on a little of what they learnt 'in their days'.

It is all to easy to say new is best, but sometimes it isn't. If those who are doing the job today ignore the past experience then they will trip up. That of course does not mean we should take every thing back to how it was 40 years ago when I joined.

The Andrew has evolved over the years, but has always managed to keep in touch with it's heritage and general good practice and management. If it loses that it is likely to lose everything.

Peter
 
Think I must've missed something during my time in the mob.

The old days were hard but that is what you would expect from a group of guys all crammed together in a ship that was a left over from the WW2 era. Built as a fighting ship the crew were trained accordingly.
The Senior rates had seen hardships and were trying to give some of their experiences of real war to the new guys.

In 1960 -ish the 22year men all went out on pension so the Navy virtually had a lot of new leading rates,Po's and chief's . Advancement was quick if you were qualified .I was a killick at 21 .
I was given the job as killick of the mess as soon as I got my rate. Mess members numbered twenty five and they were a right motley bunch.All badgemen and a couple of three badgers. I had no problems-I lined up one guy for direct disobedience and after that no problems at all and they all backed me up.

I can't remember seeing any gender benders-bullying-happy slapping or mess initiations during my time on the lower deck .

I was in 1956 --1985
 
To quote Greenie "I was given the job as killick of the mess as soon as I got my rate. Mess members numbered twenty five and they were a right motley bunch.All badgemen and a couple of three badgers. I had no problems-I lined up one guy for direct disobedience and after that no problems at all and they all backed me up.

I can't remember seeing any gender benders-bullying-happy slapping or mess initiations during my time on the lower deck ."

During my time - all 39.5 years, I cannot recall any real bullying. Yes, a crabby git or two got taught to keep himself clean etc but no bullying for bullying sake. Certainly I never witnessed any "initiations" on the messdeck.

PS. Being vertically challenged, I would consider that I would have been a prime target for such behaviour.
 
Strange that, 'cos the Court Martial records office have loads of bullying and initiation cases, dating back over many years. You must have just been lucky to avoid the ships where it happened.
 
PompeySailor said:
Strange that, 'cos the Court Martial records office have loads of bullying and initiation cases, dating back over many years. You must have just been lucky to avoid the ships where it happened.

Well I can't remember seeing any of that stuff either, in 25 years. Helped to have been in boats for a chunk of that, I suppose.

In later years - particularly on Bulwark - I did notice a couple of lads in danger of being isolated by their mess 'mates' due to their own behaviour, but a quiet word with both the man in question and the LHOM was enough. None of these 'inititations', though, and I seriously hope there are no SRs reading this that know that it goes on and do nothing about it.
 
PompeySailor said:
Strange that, 'cos the Court Martial records office have loads of bullying and initiation cases, dating back over many years. You must have just been lucky to avoid the ships where it happened.

I wonder if a "Straw Poll" would give us a clearer picture. Not just those that went to Courts Martial but the ones which were hidden from view.
 
OK - last ship was the ***. On there we had a LOM disrated for bullying OMs in his mess, we had a CC who got away with his rate by the skin of his teeth for drunken defecation, plus many other offences which were reported but not prosecuted, including which almost turned into a nasty sexual assault. We also had racist incidents based around the MEMs Mess, plus we had some fairly hefty "straightening" of members who were felt to have gone astray (some by virtue of being ginger!). Also some bullying of female trainee officers by a Lt Cdr. On my previous ship we had a POMEM disrated for bullying a MEM, plus a couple of assault cases which were judged to be "not quite" bullying (ie they were not reported back up the line as such). Many offences which happened behind closed doors and never got outside the hatch, and many offences which never made it to a table for some strange reason (possibly to keep the punishment return down....)

Maybe it's just me.....
 
There was an incident in the 4th Sub Sqdn in the late '50s that almost developed into a mutiny due to the actions of a Cox'n and a Scratcher. Maybe Nuttie might remember it
 
The British Legion is teeming with the "not in my day" crowd, which is why they have such trouble keeping their branches alive.

I agree. I suspect this is why they find it so difficult to recruit today's youngsters (anyone under 40). I must admit it has put me off joining too. As for the good old days, I agree with you. In practice the good old days are only good if your memory filters out the multiple times when things were very grim or simply unpleasant.
 
I think that this new project may affect recruitment adversely.

It seems like the Navy is 'bending over backwards' to accomodate recruits with a 'theatrical bent'.

By no means all potential recruits to the Navy are 'theatrical', in fact many young lads may be put off joining by the thought of being forced into 'amateur dramatics'.

While all this may be very PC, in my opinion it does nothing but reinforce many of the negative stereotypes that the public has of the Navy.

This is a shortsighted policy, which will have the same adverse affect on recruitment as The Village People did.
 
NozzyNozzer said:
The British Legion is teeming with the "not in my day" crowd, which is why they have such trouble keeping their branches alive.

I agree. I suspect this is why they find it so difficult to recruit today's youngsters (anyone under 40). I must admit it has put me off joining too. As for the good old days, I agree with you. In practice the good old days are only good if your memory filters out the multiple times when things were very grim or simply unpleasant.


The reason I joined the legion was because I felt that someone needed to do the continuity at Armistice day parades. Only problem being with the legion was most of them were Army or RAF and I found out there was a branch of the RNA in Dundee--and a Submariners association branch there too. So I suggest if you want to find old seafarers look for the various Navy associations and their meeting places.
 
NozzyNozzer said:
I agree. I suspect this is why they find it so difficult to recruit today's youngsters (anyone under 40). I must admit it has put me off joining too. As for the good old days, I agree with you. In practice the good old days are only good if your memory filters out the multiple times when things were very grim or simply unpleasant.

They were the good old days because we had good freinds and had a good time. Yes there were bad times too, but for most people the good outweighed the bad. Yes the services have changed, and I like many of the old farts would not like to work in the new environment, but that is the way it goes. I met people who had been in the WW2 navy and they said just the same about the navy of the 60s and 70s, and I suspect the guys who had been at Jutland said the same to the guys who sunk the Bismark.

I think the legions problems are as much to do withthe changes in leisure habits that are happening everywhere as they are to do with it being run by the old farts. Traditional pubs and clubs have also had growing problems with attracting customers and members over the past 20 years, hence the rise in theme pubs and the like over the same period.

Peter
 
PompeySailor said:
OK - last ship was the ***. On there we had a LOM disrated for bullying OMs in his mess, we had a CC who got away with his rate by the skin of his teeth for drunken defecation, plus many other offences which were reported but not prosecuted, including which almost turned into a nasty sexual assault. We also had racist incidents based around the MEMs Mess, plus we had some fairly hefty "straightening" of members who were felt to have gone astray (some by virtue of being ginger!). Also some bullying of female trainee officers by a Lt Cdr. On my previous ship we had a POMEM disrated for bullying a MEM, plus a couple of assault cases which were judged to be "not quite" bullying (ie they were not reported back up the line as such). Many offences which happened behind closed doors and never got outside the hatch, and many offences which never made it to a table for some strange reason (possibly to keep the punishment return down....)

Maybe it's just me.....

I don't remember anything like that and I only left 11 years ago.

"drunken defecation" is that following through or was he (assume its a he :oops: ) a little bit more artistic.

On the subject of Gay Matelots, I remember in the 1970's there were some well known (They weren't called gay then) sailors in the Pompey area, I worked with a couple in the galley in Barracks and met more ashore, they were accepted, and they were part of the "run ashore".
They were obviously hiding their sexuality from the "authorities", and as far as I know were not bullied or ostracised.

I would agree that the mob has to move with the times, there were a lot of changes in the 22 years that I was in, the drinking culture I joined into was seemingly on the way out (or not accepted so much).
I think having the ladies onboard put some guys to shame, standards of work etc, certainly rose on the last couple of ships I was on,(someone in another thread says it is better to be relieved by someone who has got up, washed and powdered, than by someone who has been on the p1ss, two hours kip and straight into the ops room)

Regards the Legion, well it comes in handy if you need some help, as does SSAFA, but, would recommend that the local RNA should be worth a look in, There are usually a few guys (& gals), with a sense of humour and ready to enjoy a night out, unfortunately as with life you do get the old loud mouthed "WhenI", Barrack Room Lawyer, who think they still run the RN, The Council, The Govt, but, realistically couldn't run the NAAFI Tea Boat.

Best wishes to all still in the mob, whatever your gender, sexuality, or colour, Keep the flag flying. :)
 

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