Heathrow Airport

FAAFLYNAVY

Lantern Swinger
#1
Do we need some serious thinking "outside of the box" regarding the continual problems with Heathrow? surely it would be better to build the new proposed airport in the Thames estuary & close Heathrow down.

The land is flat, reasonably clear of buildings to be removed & vast, this would provide all the space needed for housing & industry with the transport links already in place, IE: Heathrow express, underground, M4/M25.

The new airport could easily be Linked to the rail HS1 route & is close to the M2/M25/M20, by building the new airport it would do away with all the overflights for London & the surrounding areas, another reason is a huge number of the Heathrow flights are just passing through.

The crushed concrete from the standings & runways alone would be worth a fortune.:neutral:
 
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#2
Do we need some serious thinking "outside of the box" regarding the continual problems with Heathrow? surely it would be better to build the new proposed airport in the Thames estuary & close Heathrow down.

The land is flat, reasonably clear of buildings to be removed & vast, this would provide all the space needed for housing & industry with the transport links already in place, IE: Heathrow express, underground, M4/M25.

The new airport could easily be Linked to the rail HS1 route & is close to the M2/M25/M20, by building the new airport it would do away with all the overflights for London & the surrounding areas, another reason is a huge number of the Heathrow flights are just passing through.:neutral:

Don't be feckin stupid.......................far too sensible a solution:laughing3:
 

Guns

War Hero
Moderator
#4
The problem with moving Heathrow to the East is that a vast, and it is huge, industrial base has built up along the M3 corridor to support and to utilize Heathrow. Do you pay to move that infrastructure as well or is it a case of tough?

The Economist had a good article about this and its solution was to build West. Cheaper than the East apparently.
 
I

In_my_day

Guest
#6
Do we need some serious thinking "outside of the box" regarding the continual problems with Heathrow? surely it would be better to build the new proposed airport in the Thames estuary & close Heathrow down.

The land is flat, reasonably clear of buildings to be removed & vast, this would provide all the space needed for housing & industry with the transport links already in place, IE: Heathrow express, underground, M4/M25.

The new airport could easily be Linked to the rail HS1 route & is close to the M2/M25/M20, by building the new airport it would do away with all the overflights for London & the surrounding areas, another reason is a huge number of the Heathrow flights are just passing through.

The crushed concrete from the standings & runways alone would be worth a fortune.:neutral:
I disagree entirely. My understanding is that far from stopping overflight of London all flights taking off to the west would fly over the city. Additionally, would moving the airport actually relieve any of the ATC saturation? Getting to Heathrow from the SW/W is bad enough but I have a good idea lets move the airport another hour to 2 hours away, that will make it better; particularly if going to the airport around the M25 at any time that it is busy!! I'm not an aviation expert but is it not possible to develop Bristol into a fully fledged international airport? It has the motorway close by linking Wales and the Midlands, it would (probably in my opinion) cut the veh and air traffic into Heathrow and is close enough to the M4 corridor to negate any logistical issues for companies there that an estuary airport would bring.

IMD
 
#7
I wonder if the economists who have sought to put a cost to it all have factored in the moving of the airways and the associated navigation aids that are needed. It's not just a case of moving an airfield, infringing other controlled airspace, room for stacking etc. There many associated components that are required, not just the airport infrastructure.

It's a bit more involved than just upping sticks and shifting because it's busy over London!
 
G

guestm

Guest
#8
I wonder if the economists who have sought to put a cost to it all have factored in the moving of the airways and the associated navigation aids that are needed. It's not just a case of moving an airfield, infringing other controlled airspace, room for stacking etc. There many associated components that are required, not just the airport infrastructure.

It's a bit more involved than just upping sticks and shifting because it's busy over London!

Spot on Waspie. The intricacies of moving Heathrow and it's associated airspace and standing it all up elsewhere is, quite frankly, an absolute mindfuck. It's not just a case of knocking one terminal over and building another next to some nice road and rail links. The airspace above Heathrow is absolute mayhem.
 
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AAF

War Hero
#9
Spot on Waspie. The intricacies of moving Heathrow and it's associated airspace and standing it all up elsewhere is, quite frankly, an absolute mindfuck. It's not just a case of knocking one terminal over and building another next to some nice road and rail links. The airspace above Heathrow is absolute mayhem.
Last time I flew Monty was 1989, coming into Heathrow the pilot told us there would be a delay as we were stacked up, 2 in front of us and three behind, 2 more below us...clear day and you could see them all. 24 yrs on WTF is it like now.
 
#10
Judging by the array of roadworks around M3/M25 near to Gatwick yesterday, the thought did cross my mind whether sights have been switched to Gatwick ? There's so much furore around Heathrow, it could take years to wade through redtape.
Meanwhile,work on the southbound route could be taking form quietly.
 
G

guestm

Guest
#11
Last time I flew Monty was 1989, coming into Heathrow the pilot told us there would be a delay as we were stacked up, 2 in front of us and three behind, 2 more below us...clear day and you could see them all. 24 yrs on WTF is it like now.
I'll stick with military stations. Stacking 20 passenger liners at a time sounds no fun.
 

FAAFLYNAVY

Lantern Swinger
#12
I disagree entirely. My understanding is that far from stopping overflight of London all flights taking off to the west would fly over the city. Additionally, would moving the airport actually relieve any of the ATC saturation? Getting to Heathrow from the SW/W is bad enough but I have a good idea lets move the airport another hour to 2 hours away, that will make it better; particularly if going to the airport around the M25 at any time that it is busy!! I'm not an aviation expert but is it not possible to develop Bristol into a fully fledged international airport? It has the motorway close by linking Wales and the Midlands, it would (probably in my opinion) cut the veh and air traffic into Heathrow and is close enough to the M4 corridor to negate any logistical issues for companies there that an estuary airport would bring.

IMD
I think the intention with four full length runways is all flights will land & take off from the estuary/channel end, with the continual wrangling & discontent in the home counties Tory heartland over Heathrow/Gatwick/Stanstead & KCC giving Boris island the thumbs up it looks a serious probable.

It would be a win-win situation for KCC if they channelled all the freight only flights through Manston.

It seems the main stumbling block is "call me Dave" can't claim it as his own idea.

Another consideration in it's favour is we could well have a Boris TORY/Nigel UKIP coalition within a few years.:neutral:
 
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guestm

Guest
#16
I stand to be corrected of course, but with the power to weight ratio & wing lift design of modern airliners wind direction is not an issue, I believe all landings & departures at Gatwick are from the same direction all the time.
Nope it is single runway but that shouldn't be confused with single direction. Arrivals are made to 08 or 26, wind (and other factors) dependent.

Good luck taking off or landing any aircraft with a 35 knot tailwind.

Edited to add: Nearly all civilian transport aircraft have a landing / takeoff tailwind limit of 10kts.

:angel8:you will find out all about turning into wind on the Mighty RO8 Monty!!.When your F35s are at flying stations in your new home :grin:


That's the bonus of ships Scouse, swivelly runways!
 
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FAAFLYNAVY

Lantern Swinger
#17
Nope it is single runway but that shouldn't be confused with single direction. Arrivals are made to 08 or 26, wind (and other factors) dependent.

Good luck taking off or landing any aircraft with a 35 knot tailwind.

Edited to add: Nearly all civilian transport aircraft have a landing / takeoff tailwind limit of 10kts.
Yes I see where your at, I've checked the Gatwick sight blurb & it seems they operate on a 7to3 flight landing/departure directional ratio.

Even using this figure it would be beneficial to London & the surrounding areas if no flights were over London & just 30% departed/landed in from the west along the Thames corridor, most departures would turn well before they reached the Dartford bridge & only a few would ever need to overfly London.
 
G

guestm

Guest
#18
Yes I see where your at, I've checked the Gatwick sight blurb & it seems they operate on a 7to3 flight landing/departure directional ratio.

Even using this figure it would be beneficial to London & the surrounding areas if no flights were over London & just 30% departed/landed in from the west along the Thames corridor, most departures would turn well before they reached the Dartford bridge & only a few would ever need to overfly London.
Regardless, you'd need at least 15 miles in the approach to any runway to facilitate the ILS. You can't have the stacks too far away from these points either.
 

FAAFLYNAVY

Lantern Swinger
#19
Regardless, you'd need at least 15 miles in the approach to any runway to facilitate the ILS. You can't have the stacks too far away from these points either.
It's about 35Nm from the Dartford crossing to the intended site, with shed loads of stacking area safely over the channel.
 
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