has the welfare state wrecked Britain?

hobbit

War Hero
I would have to say that I believe an abuse of the welfare state has wrecked UK. In its intention the welfare system is terrific but when misused it becomes unsustainable. Sweden, once considered the perfect welfare state, is now reconsidering its position as the inflow of refugees or whatever you call them stretches the system to the limit.
The EU seems to be the greatest problem among the Western Countries although the USA is doing all right too with a multitude of southern visitors causing similar problems in welfare areas. It seems those elected to take care of the population are not capable of doing so and the problem may now be beyond recovery.
What remains now it appears is to just wait for the "BIG BANG" then pick up the pieces and start again. This big bang will be man made but no doubt as effective and ruthless as the big bangs nature is supposed to provide every million years or so.
We live in interesting times
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
The last person who spoke any sense in government on these matters was Frank Field, but he was obviously seen as being too radical by Bliar and Co.
Wasn't he told to "think the unthinkable" about the welfare system and propose meaningful change? Unfortunately when he did this, it turned out that, to the political establishment, he had "thought the unacceptable". :(
 
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
I'd guess that at least a third of benefits claimants are members of a claims industry, some of whom have never contributed to the system. And there must be a reason why non-English speaking asylum seekers and "economic migrants" pass through other EU countries on their way to the benefits nirvana that is the UK?
I think you are letting your xenophobia show a trifle here. The whole of Western Europe is seen as Nirvana by the poor and underpriviledged of the world. Why one country is selected by such people over another varies, sometimes it is a language thing, they may have contacts, or it may just be where the people smuggler worked. The reality is that it is not just the UK that has the problem, we are not unique however much we would like to be.

I would suspect the highest value of benefit fraud is carried out by Brits, they have the laguage skills and tradition of it, passed down from generation to generation.

Yes the assylum seekers get benefit, mainly because by law they are not allowed to work, despite the fact many are well qualified and willing.

We have a crazy immigration system which seems to let illegals get away with it and for example recently tried to deport a dentist, trained in the UK, who had just completed her interm time with a practice that wanted to keep her, because they had had no success in recruiting a trained dentist for 2 years, and when the local health service was desperately trying to recruit foreign dentists to fill such vacancies. Despite this the immigration service said she was not bringing enough value to the UK despite the fact that several hundred people would lose NHS detal cover if she was deported. Gladly in the end sanity prevaled .

Peter
 
Maxi_77 said:
[I think you are letting your xenophobia show a trifle here..... Yes the assylum seekers get benefit, mainly because by law they are not allowed to work, despite the fact many are well qualified and willing. Peter
I certainly don't consider myself to be a xenophobe and I did not suggest that my guesstimate of a third of claimants being part of a claims industry was made up solely of incomers. I believe in the principles of asylum, but I believe also that asylum should only be allowed for those at risk of harm, not at risk of poverty. That responsibility should not fall to the UK taxpayer to sort out. Many of those claiming asylum here have travelled through other EU countries to get to the UK, which is where I have difficulty as the convention of asylum is that it should be given in the first country to which the asylum seeker travels. Whilst other European countries have similar problems vis a vis immigration, they almost invariably have a greater land mass to play with than do we.

I am a Europhobe, in as much as I do not believe that any group of foreign nations should impose their values on a UK society that has taken many centuries to develop its own rules and identity. The UK has been systematically and royally ripped off by the EU since it joined, being one of the only nett contributors. Free trade is one thing, being accountable to such a fickle legal system as the European Court and such a gargantuan, corrupt money pit as the European Parliament and Commission is beyond my pail.
 
Do you also receive housing benefit and do you pay council tax? Please add up the value of all your benefits not just quote one of them

The benefits I quoted are the benefits that I see, e.g the money I get in my pocket each week, as in a wage, just like someone would quote the figure they see after tax, NI and students loans have gone out.

I actually get about £120 a week income support, however before the money is paid to me, my water rates, furniture grant and NI ( voluntary contributions) come out. My HB and CTB never pass through my hands so therefore even if I wanted to I don't get to spend them.
 

slim

War Hero
wompingwillow said:
Do you also receive housing benefit and do you pay council tax? Please add up the value of all your benefits not just quote one of them

The benefits I quoted are the benefits that I see, e.g the money I get in my pocket each week, as in a wage, just like someone would quote the figure they see after tax, NI and students loans have gone out.

I actually get about £120 a week income support, however before the money is paid to me, my water rates, furniture grant and NI ( voluntary contributions) come out. My HB and CTB never pass through my hands so therefore even if I wanted to I don't get to spend them.
Housing benefit and council tax benefit are each worth a certain amount of money even if you never see them. As for furniture grant coming out and NI contributions the furniture grant was a loan which you are in the process of repaying while NI contributions are made for all claiments (my NI contributions will be made for me until I reach 65 this is the only benefit that I am entitled to though I have paid into the system for over 45 years). to get a true figure of what your total benefits amount to you must add to the £120 the rent which would normally be paid by a wage earner living in a similar property and the council tax that would be paid by a wage earner. Benefits are not purely what you get in your hand
 
slim said:
wompingwillow said:
Do you also receive housing benefit and do you pay council tax? Please add up the value of all your benefits not just quote one of them

The benefits I quoted are the benefits that I see, e.g the money I get in my pocket each week, as in a wage, just like someone would quote the figure they see after tax, NI and students loans have gone out.

I actually get about £120 a week income support, however before the money is paid to me, my water rates, furniture grant and NI ( voluntary contributions) come out. My HB and CTB never pass through my hands so therefore even if I wanted to I don't get to spend them.
while NI contributions are made for all claiments (my NI contributions will be made for me until I reach 65 this is the only benefit that I am entitled to though I have paid into the system for over 45 years).
For old age pension purposes -100% entitlement -if you have paid the NI stamp for 44 years then you don't need to pay anymore .
Also at 65 you don't pay NI contributions.
 

slim

War Hero
Greenie said:
slim said:
wompingwillow said:
Do you also receive housing benefit and do you pay council tax? Please add up the value of all your benefits not just quote one of them

The benefits I quoted are the benefits that I see, e.g the money I get in my pocket each week, as in a wage, just like someone would quote the figure they see after tax, NI and students loans have gone out.

I actually get about £120 a week income support, however before the money is paid to me, my water rates, furniture grant and NI ( voluntary contributions) come out. My HB and CTB never pass through my hands so therefore even if I wanted to I don't get to spend them.
while NI contributions are made for all claiments (my NI contributions will be made for me until I reach 65 this is the only benefit that I am entitled to though I have paid into the system for over 45 years).
For old age pension purposes -100% entitlement -if you have paid the NI stamp for 44 years then you don't need to pay anymore .
Also at 65 you don't pay NI contributions.
I am 61 and have paid NI contributions for 44 years. I no longer sign on as when over the age of 60 NI contributions are paid on your behalf. Therefore I am receiving benefits. At age of 65 Iwill receive my government pension. This is also classed as a benifit, I don't understand why as I have been paying for it most of my life.
 

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