Has something just happened to HDT travel expenses?

[Uncle_Albert]

In my post this afternoon, June's pay statement, which appears to deduct about a thousand pounds from my balance to claim back HDT payments made since April 2009. In fact, looks like every drill night I attended since April 2009 has had the HDT rescinded (or at least, about five-sixths or it). Including HDTs when I was at different units and resubmitted the form upon changing unit, which makes me think that someone somewhere has done something like deciding I actually never changed unit and never had to travel more than about five miles.

I also note that I've been paid about a quarter of the actual HDT cost for this month's drill night attendances.

Has anyone else got a pay statement full of insanity like this? Just so I know if it's just me, or some kind of JPA screwup. Guess I'll be going in early on the next drill night in an attempt to get this looked at.

 

[SimpleReservist]

Email the oic of your JSU, Cc your DO, asking them to immediately reimburse you the stoppage, and to prepare an Annex A, you the agree or not, in n Annex B, and then the JSU send you the Annex C, which is the agreed repayment schedule of 1 days pay a month. This is the legal procedure for recovery of alleged overpayments. From what you have said, and I do not have the full story, what has happened, (even if you have been accidentally overpaid), is illegal. JSU, and DO should help you. PM me if you need more advice.

 

[Uncle_Albert]

Thanks SimpleReservist. Whilst you do not have the full story and mistakes can happen on both sides, I'm pretty sure that something's gone wrong. Even if had been massively overpaid on HDT, it seems a bit wrong, as you imply, to just take it all back at once without warning.

I'll be going in to my unit early next drill night (being unemployed at the moment and thus this could not have come at a worse time, I can ironically spare the time to fix it) so in theory the JSU there should have someone in it that I can talk to.

I've done some sums and it looks like someone decided that my 109 mile round trip back in 2009 should have attracted £5.61 in HDT. Even with the mileage cutoff level (I think I was told, and was happy to agree, that I wouldn't get the full 109 miles, just the upper limit) that seems a bit low; it also seems that someone has decided my current train fare of £11.30 should attract a HDT payment of £3.50. Definitely doesn't sound right.

I will go in and talk to JSU as you suggest. To summarise, then, I think there are two screwups; firstly, someone's backdated my HDT four years with completely wrong amounts, and secondly (which I didn't know) it's outright illegal for them to simply take it all back at once with no warning.

I'm not too worked up about it; the kind of thing that, in every civilian job I've ever had would lead to personal apologies from the finance director and disciplinary action delivered to someone in accounting, is par for the course in the MOD pay system. It's the part of the MOD that I simply expect utter incompetency in.

If I have any troubles I'll drop you a PM.

 

[danny]

Good luck with the writing of annexes the MODs stance is that if you have been overpaid/fined you pay 4 days wages a month.
If it has been deemed as fraud it will be reclaimed at once.
Now I'm not saying that you have committed fraud but they must at least think so. Speak to someone at the unit and get it sorted. If its a mistake you will get it fixed without the need to write annexes and start shouting about the law.

 

[Uncle_Albert]

Now I'm not saying that you have committed fraud but they must at least think so.

Maybe they do. Would have been nice if they'd spoken to me before coming to their verdict

To be fair, it's possible they might have tried to (although I suspect not - JPA screwups seem to be completely automated), but through experience there seems to be no standard way for someone in the MOD to contact a reservist.

 

[danny]

They do the exact same with regulars. You need to contact them its a shit system but thats how it is.

 

[danny]

To be honest, if they have suspected you of fraud I think the first thing you'd have known about it would have been a visit by the SIB. They don't tend to take the money back first, it would kind of let you know that they were on to you, a little bit.

4 days, gross, is the normal recovery rate so it's a bit od that they have taken a big lump from you, speak to the JSU and see what they have to say.

You are capped at 50 miles, minus your personal contribution (41 miles, total you can be paid, if in private accommodation) but the figures don't stack correctly, from what you've said here.

I know people who have been told they have made illegitimate claims deemed as fraud and never had an SIB visit. They weren't illegitimate claims either and had to get emergency pay.

 

[SimpleReservist]

I think the reservist can only be "forced" to repay at 1 days pay per month, and a regular, 4 days. I'd have to check though. But it is up to SVPA to PROVE, via an Annex A, that there has been an overpayment BEFORE any recovery action is commenced. And as you say, it looks like you haven't been overpaid, thus their job of proving it will be interesting!

 

[Uncle_Albert]

I did recently (well, about three months ago) ask my JSU office to double-check that I was being paid the right HDT. Interpreting this as a request to backdate me four years and take five-sixths of it back sounds like a typical response

Let this be a lesson; never, EVER draw the JSU office's attention to you.

 

[janner]

I hope this isn't just another ploy not to get your round in come August :fart:

 

[The_walk_of_shame]

Just a quick one while we're on the subject, the 50 miles minus personal contribution cap, is that one way or for a round trip?

If it's for a round trip I'm a little bit fucked.

 

[The_walk_of_shame]

50 miles is the maximum distance you will be paid from your residence (or work location for reserves) to your normal place of duty (minus the 9 miles personal contribution).

Can you claim an equal amount for the return journey?

Reason I ask is that I have a 170 mile round trip to my unit, if I'm only covered for 41 miles of that then I may have to seriously rethink whether I'm going to continue with this idea.

Has this cap come in recently? I was specifically told at my initial recruiting presentation that ALL travel expenses are covered, I made a point of asking the question because I knew it would seriously affect me. I wouldn't have started the application process otherwise.

By a very rough estimation, it costs me about 35 quid per trip to the unit and back, given that I'll be earning about 12 quid before tax per drill night, plus 18 odd quid which is the 41 miles at 45p, this leaves me a fiver short per trip.

I want to be in the RNR but I'm not paying out of my own pocket to do so.

Quite frankly the last 7 months have been a massive waste of time if this is the case.

 

[The_walk_of_shame]

the 50 miles is each way

That's slightly more reassuring, I can live with that.

Many thanks.

 

[sgtpepperband]

I know people who have been told they have made illegitimate claims deemed as fraud and never had an SIB visit...

If the SIB spent their entire time conducting inquiries into fraudulent JPA claims, they wouldn't be able to investigate kiddy porn by senior officers or sudden deaths on operations... :shock:

In all seriousness, UPOs can (and should) exhaust their own investigative procedures on these matters before the SIB are involved. That avenue is more protracted, whereas administrative action is more immediate (and tends not to end with a criminal conviction).

 

[SimpleReservist]

There would appear to be a further publication, exact name/number escapes me that states very clearly that Recovery from a Reservist is 1 days pay per month.
This was brought in in 2008/9 after nearly every RNR who was mobilised had their pay screwed up. I know, I was one of them.

Additionally, subject to approval from the CO, and on a case by case basis, reservists could apply for HTDs in excess of 50 miles each way. This may now have been capped,(when they brought in the personal contribution) but my advice is to ask the JSU to show you the publication that states it is capped, then read the whole section, as there may (and I do say may, not will) be amplification that allows in excess of 50 miles.
Again, good luck.

 

[Uncle_Albert]

Ah, the JSU.

Been trying to contact them for two days. eMails go unanswered, the phone rings for minutes without being picked up. Having to deal with RNR admin is one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to do. Work habits that would get people... given refresher training in civilian jobs are standard procedure.

Is it the right eMail? Is it the right number? It's the details sent out a fortnight ago on Daily Orders, and also the (different) last ones I used when I did once manage to contact the JSU. Is that any guarantee of correctness? Of course not...

 

[SimpleReservist]

UA,
resend email, Cc to Do, then XO then CO, eventually someone will get the message!

 

[Uncle_Albert]

For those readers not familiar with life in the RNR, here is a little glimpse.

The last time I tried, about a month ago, I found nobody in the JSU on a drill night. Ironically, I'd been trying to find someone in there because I wanted my HDT checked. Every time I went in, it was light off and desks empty. I figured that maybe they simply weren't in that night. Try again next time I'm in.

Well, tonight when I tried, I noticed that the sign marked "JSU" wasn't on the door any more. That's odd. I went in anyway, to find some chap in there.

"Is this the JSU?" asks I.

"No," comes the reply, "They moved a while ago."

The JSU moved. I checked back through daily orders. Nothing. The sign stayed on the door (at least, it was on there the last time I tried it and found an empty, dark room), and the arrow in the corridor pointing to the JSU still points to the old JSU. The JSU moved and nobody told the reservists. Other people in unit I asked though it was still in the old location (some of them also noted that they'd been in there recently looking for someone to talk to about pay/admin/etc., but the lights were off and nobody was in there). This also explains, presumably, why the phone number that went out on daily orders a fortnight ago simply rings off the hook. Because it's no longer the phone number for the JSU.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is life in the RNR.

 

[2_deck_dash]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is life in the RNR.

Well you know what you can do if you don't like it shippers?

Slap in.

You can't blame your life's problems on the fact that some **** moved to a new office. How ******* big is your unit's building?

Quite frankly if I was in your position I'd be pestering every **** in the chain of command daily until I got the problem resolved or they trooped me. I don't even know what a 'JSU' is, but I bet you I could find it right now, through the tried and tested medium of hassling people.

 

[Uncle_Albert]

If you can't handle the sound of people dripping, you know what you can do? Slap in.

You shouldn't be here anyway. Someone with your incredible psychic abilities should be out fighting crime.