Harrier Jump Jet things

[beer_bosun]

What better forum to ask than our friends in the WAFU department.

Could you settle an argument for me?

Friends of mine say that they harrier jump jet was able to take off and land using its vertical capability.

I thought it was just landing.

Could you confirm and if it can take off via the vertical thrust thing, what was the point of the ski jump on the invincible class ships?

 

[ex_wasp_L2]

I believe yes it can (I have never worked on them) the ramp was designed as a fuel saving device and also to allow more payload (again I believe)

 

[higthepig]

100 per cent right wasp

 

[RoofRat]

They definately can, but the payload and flight duration would be drastically reduced. At least with the ones that I operated with off the Invince. back in 82.
Of course, that was before in flight refuelling was available to them.
RoofRat

 

[Navaleye]

Range with 2 AIM9 was limited to something in order of 90 miles after a vertical take off.

 

[Bisley]

Payload correct as cant vertically take off with too much munitions etc. Another reason only carries 50 gallons of water to cool Engine, which is the other reasonas this puts too much stress and life counts on engine life so on board conventional take off is used via the ramp. (must get out more)

 

[beer_bosun]

Thanks all.

I consider myself educated now.

 

[beer_bosun]

Actually just to clarify again, were these aircraft only used in the Navy or do the RAF ones have the capability too?

 

[Bisley]

the Sea Harrier FA2 was used in RN until they were decommissioned and the crabs had GR7's. The crab version didin't have the radar and air 2 air capability of the FA2 but could carry serious amounts of munitions. Both vertical lift but the crabs had a better engine so smaller take off distance. Basically as usual the MOD stuck all the dosh into the crabs and the RN made do as it always does. (here endeth the lesson)

 

[FlagWagger]

the Sea Harrier FA2 was used in RN until they were decommissioned and the crabs had GR7's. The crab version didin't have the radar and air 2 air capability of the FA2 but could carry serious amounts of munitions. Both vertical lift but the crabs had a better engine so smaller take off distance. Basically as usual the MOD stuck all the dosh into the crabs and the RN made do as it always does. (here endeth the lesson)

The RN and RAF now use a combination of GR7 / 7A and GR9 / 9A; the 9 is a major upgrade to add enhanced avionics and capabability to the 7 while the A suffix variants have uprated engines.

 

[fishmiester]

the Sea Harrier FA2 was used in RN until they were decommissioned and the crabs had GR7's. The crab version didin't have the radar and air 2 air capability of the FA2 but could carry serious amounts of munitions. Both vertical lift but the crabs had a better engine so smaller take off distance. Basically as usual the MOD stuck all the dosh into the crabs and the RN made do as it always does. (here endeth the lesson)

Except the FA2 had the Blue Vixon Radar. A piece of kit widely regarded as the best in its field. Without the FA2 we have a MASSIVE capability gap which the girly GR7 8 9 or what ever just can not fill :x

 

[FlagWagger]

the Sea Harrier FA2 was used in RN until they were decommissioned and the crabs had GR7's. The crab version didin't have the radar and air 2 air capability of the FA2 but could carry serious amounts of munitions. Both vertical lift but the crabs had a better engine so smaller take off distance. Basically as usual the MOD stuck all the dosh into the crabs and the RN made do as it always does. (here endeth the lesson)

Except the FA2 had the Blue Vixon Radar. A piece of kit widely regarded as the best in its field. Without the FA2 we have a MASSIVE capability gap which the girly GR7 8 9 or what ever just can not fill :x

Yep! The GR7 / 9 are designed primarily as close ground support platforms while the FA2 was more capable in the AA arena. Doesn't the current defence policy assume that we're going to be involved in littoral warfare in the future? In which case, having a capable ground support aircraft makes sense, however, relying on such an aircraft for your Air Defence doesn't.

 

[Backpacker1uk]

Who was the jockey who landed at the air show in Sweden[the home of de blondies] few years back with no wheels no nothing down. We are not amused!!

Last seen cutting grass at Fairford.

 

[Bisley]

the Sea Harrier FA2 was used in RN until they were decommissioned and the crabs had GR7's. The crab version didin't have the radar and air 2 air capability of the FA2 but could carry serious amounts of munitions. Both vertical lift but the crabs had a better engine so smaller take off distance. Basically as usual the MOD stuck all the dosh into the crabs and the RN made do as it always does. (here endeth the lesson)

The RN and RAF now use a combination of GR7 / 7A and GR9 / 9A; the 9 is a major upgrade to add enhanced avionics and capabability to the 7 while the A suffix variants have uprated engines.

True but the problem is most of them are older airframes than the FA2's were as they are conversions. Around 20 FA2's were scrapped with tiny flying hours on them ie ZH numbers. The last one i worked on had only flown 400 hours and then was sold for scrap at £10,000, minus all good bits of course. cheers Blair!! The problem is the powers that be hoped that any future conflict we will have allies with air support. In Op Telic i believe the air support for the Ark Royal was to be provided by the French who said yeh whtaever we will protect our assets first and rightly so.

 

[chockhead819]

wait til the new carriers come with the new fighters to provide fleet cover --- yeah right, the RAF will be in charge of naval aviation before long. I underestimated the SHAR down the falklands, what will happen now if the argies try again which they are threatening Illustrious, Ark iNn refit & invinc more or less scrapped & no fighters!!
just a gloriefied crab cab & a bunch of little blues who don't want to go to sea.

 

[imom1406]

wait til the new carriers come with the new fighters to provide fleet cover --- yeah right, the RAF will be in charge of naval aviation before long. I underestimated the SHAR down the falklands, what will happen now if the argies try again which they are threatening Illustrious, Ark iNn refit & invinc more or less scrapped & no fighters!!
just a gloriefied crab cab & a bunch of little blues who don't want to go to sea.

Mind you , we did manage to cobble a task force together from the fleet and a bunch of ships we had already sold in '82.....and made some civvy ships into RFA's by the clever use of Lego and containers. It was bit like Blue Peter on a Massive scale.

The Navy will as usual learn lessons from the next conflict it gets involved in and things will change again. Sadly it means a loss of life for the politicians to realise the error of their ways.

 

[jetnoise-sound_of_freedom]

the Sea Harrier FA2 was used in RN until they were decommissioned and the crabs had GR7's. The crab version didin't have the radar and air 2 air capability of the FA2 but could carry serious amounts of munitions. Both vertical lift but the crabs had a better engine so smaller take off distance. Basically as usual the MOD stuck all the dosh into the crabs and the RN made do as it always does. (here endeth the lesson)

The RN and RAF now use a combination of GR7 / 7A and GR9 / 9A; the 9 is a major upgrade to add enhanced avionics and capabability to the 7 while the A suffix variants have uprated engines.

True but the problem is most of them are older airframes than the FA2's were as they are conversions. Around 20 FA2's were scrapped with tiny flying hours on them ie ZH numbers. The last one i worked on had only flown 400 hours and then was sold for scrap at £10,000, minus all good bits of course. cheers Blair!! The problem is the powers that be hoped that any future conflict we will have allies with air support. In Op Telic i believe the air support for the Ark Royal was to be provided by the French who said yeh whtaever we will protect our assets first and rightly so.

Had to take a trip over to the "dark side" the other week, and one of the last FA2's was in the hangar after a respray to tidy it up for...............wait for it..........A GARDEN ORNAMENT. WTF? Sad day when they were decommissioned!

 

[fangita]

I heard the Blue Vixen/AMRAAM combination that made the SHAR boys so shit-hot at combat was being considered as a retrofit for the F3s that will limp along in their crapness as Typhoon (a mere 10 years late so far) slips further right into the sunset..... Foxhunter's a pretty useless piece of kit.

 

[avoiding_action]

Why we never did the same as the USMC, who put all their old F/A 18 radars on the front of their AV8B's (hence AV8B+) and give then an AAW capability I'll never know!

After all, we had all these Blue Vixens, AMRAAM's and spares and a load of GR7's planning a major upgrade?

Or am I using common sense again?

 

[Berniephot]

i think it would be nice just to have an MP who has had even the smallest amount of military service. until then cut backs it is.....that why i am emigrating...............................