Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by golden_rivet, May 9, 2009.
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Guernsey Liberation Day
After visiting the place I had to wonder why we bothered.
As you say, no wonder the Allied Forces bypassed it.
...but but it is affiliated with our shiny new 1st of class Daring :sleepy1: :sleepy2:
And at 10pm tonight - hot off the press ....
Nice pictures; shame they're coming across in bits (not your fault).
Nice way of life on Guernsey. I will catch their VAT free model shop open some day!
it is my fault I was too lazy to reduce te size - \i'll sort that
Surely that should be Guernsey Collaborators Day to mark their police force & judiciary's bending over backwards to ingradiate themselves with their Nazi occupiers by helpfully identifying all the Island's small Jewish population, arresting them and incarcerating them prior to deportation to the camps.
Easy to say when you have'nt got a gun at your head! Of course they could of resisted by blowing up the only small train on the island and then running of and hiding in the hills and mountains! The islands were abandoned by the British Government because they were not defendable, a large proportion of islanders were evacuated leaving a much reduced population. No regular food or other resources, death by starvation is'nt nice. Even Britain had Nazi collaborators, they just never got their chance to prove it! At least Guernsey/Jersey/sark/Alderney are prepared to celebrate their history this ****ing country is to scared to celebrate anything anymore! The islands were bypassed after D-Day because they were of no stategic value, just as well, to take them would of been a bloodbath.
Quite right too, ivormorski. Piece on the Beeb earlier in the week where an Aussie was rather bemused as to why the Brits don't celebrate VE day with a public holiday. Good point.
Until recently, I worked for a German own company in Jersey. I used to call it "re-invasion day" which didn't go down to well with my peers ...
As an adopted local I have to question the whole "Liberation Day" theme. It was hardly a liberation as the Germans had already surrendered.
It was liberated after the surrender because the Germans who were
in occupation would have tried to defend --as mentioned the islands were
of no strategic value to the war in Europe after the D Day landings.
Would they have triedto defend the islands? Surely the game was up by then. They had little food having to rely on eating the local's dogs and or making raids to France some.
Strange that other little islands with small populations facing starvation didn't collaborate, like Bornholm whose citizens took a dim view of their occupieds (and still don't seem very Germanphiliac). Ok many mainland Danes did collaborate until 1943, but neither the Bornholm or Danish police helped identify and round up the small Jewish population.
The german army in occupation on the Channel Islands was probably well fed or had enough supplies to withstand an assault.The defences were
The term used in other theatres was 'left to wither on the vine ' the C.Isles german forces could play no part and were basically isolated . Surrender
was not a word Hitler ever used and the die hard Nazi's would have
made sure there was no talk of surrender while Hitler was still alive.
Some little island, Bornholm is approx 220 sq miles, even now its only got a pop of about 45000. Guernsey is or was 24 sq miles and even with a reduced pop was about 20 - 25000. Its not easy to hide on a small island, with virtually no contact from the outside world, and lets be honest did they know about the death camps? Even the liberators of the camps were traumatised at what they found. Its easy to be critical of people after the event and don't think that these people have'nt carried that burden to the grave let alone what the local population thought and did to them. Even now there are grudges harboured and resentment felt by families. Some of them were'nt even on the island at the time! It was a terrible time for a small population who had seen the jackboot walk across europe.
After Kristalnacht they must have had a pretty good idea that the lives of Jews had not legal or moral force to the Germans. It was also known then that most Germans, for religious reasons based on strongly anti-Semitic teachings by all mainstream Christian churches, supported the persecution. Moreover after the full Nuremburg laws were implimented the extent of persecution and its eliminationist agenda WERE clear, though not the method. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury condemned the direction in which they were heading. The Islands police did not need to collaborate: the Nazis applied no pressure to give the information. The police took it upon themselves to comply with the request. After the war it was all hushed up. No soul searching, no accountability. The Bornholmers hid Jews in their homes. Et tu Channel Islanders? A few did, but most did nothing.
Thingy. Obviously you are the expert and were present for the duration of the occupation. I don't doubt the islanders knew that Jews were being persecuted, but did they know that they were being eliminated in such a fashion. As for collaboration, its easy to judge after the event. Pressure can be applied in various ways, some quite covert in their manner. What would you choose, your wife and kids or the easy option? Especially if you witnessed the cruelty of the occupiers. Yes everything was kept quiet after the war, not just by Guernsey, but no accoutability? What would you of liked take them to do, put them against a wall and shoot them? Its easy to judge after the event with all the facts to hand. If what they did was so bad why were'nt they tried after the event by the victors? So called collaboration took place throughout occupied europe to widely varying degrees, some was done to try and help their people and and a lot was done for personal gain. The islands should be allowed to celebrate release from a period of darkness in their history when an immense amount of suffering was dealt out by fellow humans.
Thingy. You're starting to sound like one of those sanctimonious, holier-than-thou cnuts who expound on anything and everything from their armchairs. As has been said by Ivormoreski, it's easy to sit back and say what you would have done and condemn others. A bloke I served with was a channel islander and his family "claim to fame" was his grandfather re-fuelled U boats and E boats, why, because he had to. Would you have preferred him to be charged for war crimes as he knew what the boats were doing?
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