Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Ballistic, May 15, 2010.
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Can't really see it happening myself...
Very wishful thinking. He should concentrate his efforts on keeping the place open at all - the SDR that kicks off shortly will no doubt explore its closure or the movement of major assets to Portsmouth as a possibility.
Ballistic, I think you're right. Being the most geographically useful Base we have, that is unfortunate. Also unfortunate is that yer man's sole qualifications for Naval oppinion is that he lives in the former RNH Stonehouse and his dad and wife's grandad were in the Andrew. He doesn't seem to have any expertise in civil engineering either. So he's doing his job and making the "right" noises.
Dredging Spithead and the Harbour is always going to be cheaper and simpler than cutting rock in Cremyll Shoal. Also Pompey is the "national darling" and just too close to London. If only VICTORY had been a Guz (OK, 20th Century name) ship; sod Drake, Frobisher and Hawkins!
Quite simply the carriers are too big - a no brainer. To give you some idea of the size they will just fit under the Forth bridges at low tide. Now Portland............
Guzz is to be the centre of amphibious warfare with some RM units already lodged in the Naval Base.
The 2.5 streams of refit currently at Rosyth will be moving to Devonport since Rosyth does not hace the capacity to do them. This is because of the carrier build programme.
Well, no, theyâ€™re not too big at all. There are no bridges between Devonport and the sea. I remember some years ago watching one of the carriers (canâ€™t remember which one), having a refit in 5 Basin, so access is not impossible.
As for the dredging aspect, our new MP doesnâ€™t seem to be aware that a lot of clearance took place in order to allow Vanguard to float up the Tamar. The carriers have a shallower draft.
Whether itâ€™s a good idea to move them here is political and economic problem, not a logistic one.
Although they were smaller, the (old) Ark, (old) Bulwark and Hermes always had to take it easy rounding the corner by Devil's Point as it was a tight turn. I'm not sure how much longer the new carriers will be in comparison. As has been said, keel depth is not a problem. I don't know where they intend to dock these things down when they require it, I haven't heard too much on that score.
Way too much forethought there. Our glorious leaders canâ€™t even give us a â€˜yea/nayâ€™ on buying the bloody things.
Expecting them to consider what happens when the first refit arrives is asking a lot.
What you can expect is a whole new political bun-fight for who gets the contract when it eventually turns up on their radar.
Just had a rather drunken, incoherent thought prior to turning in but aren't these big ships meant to be around for the next 50 years or so?
If that's the case, (and I'm fairly sure I won't be around in 50 years), isn't anything possible?
Maybe based in Birmingham as most of UK is underwater due to climate change. :dontknow:
If common sense ruled the day (which it doesn't) then surely it would make sense to have them refitted at Rosyth where a new dry dock has been built to accommodate the construction of the carriers as the other dry-docks at Rosyth are too small (well according to one of the promo videos I watched)
I'm half expecting someone to make a mistake with the height and the ships not to clear the Forth Bridges....that sort of screw up would come as no surprise
Agree, it is not beyond engineering to make them fit in Guzz - it is the cost I suppose.
Although Vanguard draws a little more than CVF, CVF is 284m in length compared to Hermes at 226m. 10 Dock in Guzz is limited to approx 40000 tons and 259m.
In the vicinity of Devils point (Apart from cars with flashing headlights - what is that all about?) is some of the deepest water for miles around, over 20m in some cases.
Since the French are having one built as well maybe it could be base ported & refitted with theirs..........I am sure some EU committee will think this is a good idea.
ummmm, I know a story or two about what that is
EU committee? Don't you mean the Lib Dems will tell the Tories to give the work to Brest?
ocean only just fits in 10 dock, and then they couldnt do all the work they wanted on her because of the lack of space i.e extending her stabilisers and she is 20000 tons, arent the new carriers in the region of 65000 tons?
edited too many zeros lol!
God I hope not, that's nearly a million tonnes of steel.... :wink:
There are sections of the channel near Millbay and Devils Point which go nearly as deep as 40m and 5, 6, and 7 wharfs are maintained at 11m chart datum so they could lay in Devonport. The problem would be getting them across the sound, which has some not so deep sections, and through the narrows.
I always thought that the idea was that they would be built in Jockland and maintained there as well. Now call me cynical but this is nothing more than keeping jobs for the boys up there. Every time they have a maintainence period it will be in Rosyth, great if you and your loved ones are in DSC. There used to be a very large dry dock in Southampton so why not maintain them there? Or has it been filled in for housing?
Somewhere in my distant memory....was there not one of the old carriers grounded in the narrows in Guzz?
Don't try and put common sense and government decisions together....it never occurs
Eagle was moored just up from the narrows for ages, is that the one you're thinking about?
No. I seem to recall it being in the daily papers.....might be wrong though!
( maybe when she started on her tow to the breakers)
There were two, one was filled in"temporarily" and was, five years ago use as a carpark for export Jaguars. The other "King George V" is still in use and is good for 100,000 tons and up to 300m length.
Since most people are referring to how utterly and totally broke the country is, wouldn't it be a total and utter waste of money to not have the carriers refitted and maintained in Rosyth (where they are being assembled and facilities are being built specifically for said vessels and where there are those who have experience of working on said vessels?) instead of having them refitted and maintained in Southampton or Plymouth.
Then again the excuse for suggesting such lunacy is "Rosyth in Jockistan" as if being Scottish was a dirty thing...
Some comments are banter on this site, rough banter but banter none the less (and fair enough), however lately some of the comments are getting damn close to racism. Funny how so many of Britain's war dead (especially in WW1) have come from north of the border despite so many fewer living in Scotland? Perhaps a strong sense of King / Queen and Country prevails, despite seemingly being second class citizens.
I do not like Brown, but at least I have the decency to complain about his political abilities rather than his place of origin, disabilities he suffers from or his personal appearance.
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