Gun & Knife Crime

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by slim, Apr 9, 2007.

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  1. I know that I am going to be accused of being a racist but this question needs answering. According to statistics non whites make up about 5.5 percent of the population (in the year 2000).

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/s95race00.pdf

    So why is the percentage of gun and knife crime that is being committed in the UK not reflected in these figures. Every week there are more and more gun and knife crimes being committed and if the media is to be believed about 90% of this is committed by non whites.
    I may be old fashioned but I do not believe that being black and from a disadvantaged background automatically leads to crime. Too often the system is blamed for the fact that young men are committing horrendous acts of violence against other young men.
    This did not happen with such regularity 20 years ago. Unfortunately if a black youth is stopped and searched by the police he invariably complains that it is because of the colour of his skin.
    Due to political correctness I believe that the only ones capable of turning this situation around is the black community themselves. They have to say enough of our youngsters have being killed or maimed and take control of their families lives and attitudes.
    standing by for both incoming and suggestions.
     
  2. It's down to statistics again slim. The areas where these incidents are happening, the percentage of non-white is in the majority.
     
  3. The question was why is the gun and knife crime mainly carried out in non white areas?
    What can be done to eridicate this type of crime?
    We have many large mainly white Chav sink estates but the amount of gun/knife crime that happens is low when compared with non white areas.
     
  4. Not your original Question.
     
  5. What concerns me is where these people are getting their weapons from? Mostly in the case of gun crime, here. Last I heard, handguns were banned. HM Customs and Excise really need to work on preventing smugglers bringing in firearms.

    In the case of stabbings, well I just don't know yet.
     
  6. Slim, you raise a very valid point and I think that one of the reasons for being fearful of being accused of racism is down to the fact that every tw*t with an agenda would automatically assume a white person mentioning anything concerning black people was racist. The attitude, especially amongst the left-wingers, that only white people can be racist is totally wrong and this has been borne out by the occasional problems between black and Asians.

    Whilst it does appear that the majority of gun and knife crime comes from the 'black community' (and I really hate the term 'community') it seems as though the white chav scum are starting to play catch up. I do agree with you when you say being black and from a disadvantaged background does not automatically lead to crime. Many people from a disadvantaged background have gone on to become successful and there are many instances where black people have gone on to become very successful and famous. What it comes down to is who you choose to have as your role model. You suggest that the regularity of such incidences has increased over the last 20 years and that seems to tie in with the 'gangsta rappa' culture imported from the good 'ol US of A and I guess that when you are young and impressionable and you see all these rappers shrouded in gold, driving about in posh cars and singing about respec' and popping a cap in some dude's ass then that is what you aspire to to become successful and respected. It's not the only reason, there must be many other factors but I certainly don't believe that it's because black kids are any less intelligent than white kids or that they have fewer options open to them.

    I also think one of the problems we have is the ghettoisation (is that a real word?) of areas where you find a large majority of black or Asians. It gives a lie to the idea of a multi-culture society. We aren't really multi-cultural, we just have pockets of different cultures.

    I don't have the answers but I do think that we as a society have to do something about it and one way is to catch them whilst they are young. A positive influence during the formative years has to be the best approach and don't forget the maxim "give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man".

    As for the law and order aspect, the handgun ban has really worked. NOT. Shotguns haven't been banned and how much crime is commited with shotguns? Carrying a knife with a blade exceeding 4 inches (I think) has always been illegal, to the best of my knowledge but that hasn't stopped the stabbings. I've always believed in a highly visible police presence. There is always a hidden cost to crime and I think that if more money was spent on vastly increasing the number of police officers and getting them out on the streets (and get rid of the PCSOs) then the costs attributed to crime would fall.
     
  7.  
  8. I think a fairer observation is that most gun & knife crime occurs in poor areas with high unemployment and poorer school performance. It just so happens that a great many of these areas are populated by ethnic minorities from an immigrant population, a substantial number of whom are black.

    It is important, however, that we differentiate between new black immigration and those citizens who are descended from the 'windrush' era of immigration from the Caribbean communities, as the social problems affecting this particular group are different.

    I think that examining a link between ethnicity and crime is misleading. Were white people living in the same areas in the same circumstances, I have little trouble believing that the crime statistics would be no different. Areas with high crime rates and high levels of immigrants can potentially be drawn, as immigrants tend to live in the poorer areas of cities, but this problem is not a direct result of immigration itself. Rather, it is as a result of social policies and constructs that create these ghettos, be they ghettos of black people, poor white people or martians.

    The net result of social isolation and the self-perpetuating cycle of poor education, limited social provision, poor estate design and reduced opportunities are the same.
     
  9. Chalkie
    I do not believe that living in a poor and deprived area in any way excuses crime. What I see is that the crimes committed by the deprived differs.
    White kids living on sink estates tend to be the ones stealing cars for joy riding, shoplifting and vandalising.
    Non white kids seem to be committing acts of violence and drug abuse.
    Rich white people tend to commit white collar crime such as fraud and insurance scams.
    Middle class white people often fiddle expense reports.
    Crime is not committed by one colour or race, all races and colours are at it.
    However my point was that most gun and knife crime is committed by the non white population.
     

  10. So, you're basing that supposition on your interpretation of the media?

    Rather shaky ground there to be honest, but it would be interesting to see if there's research to back up your claim. The Home Office has statistics on everything, so I will attempt to more firmly prove/disprove that assessment.

    I do take your point though that people commit crimes relevant to the arenas they're exposed to, but is that more reflective of occupation and opportunity than background and ethnicity? I think there's a case for crime demographics, but it's not as exclusive as it would at first appear. Mass criminal profiling has always been controversial as it can be skewed by 'hot-spots' such as East London and Nottingham (for guns) so it can only really be said to have a localised relevance. It is however, utterly pointless if your survey finds that young black men are more likely to carry knives in an area largely composed of black people, which will naturally have a significant proportion of young black men. It's like saying that you're more likely to get swimming fish in an pond populated by fish capable of swimming.

    However, you are correct that some ethnicities are linked by virtue of statistics and geography to certain types of crimes, hence the existences of Operation Trident, but there is a danger that an operation such as this will lead people to draw an incorrect conclusion that all young black males are more likely to be involved in these types of crimes, rather than a minority of the young black males living in these specific communities in these areas at this time.
     
  11. Whilst Nottingham is a hot-spot for gun crime (although it does seem to be quietening down a little bit of late), not all the gun crime is commited by black males. Remember the case of Marian Bates, her killer was white.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4354467.stm

    But don't forget that whilst the majority of shootings may be carried out by young black men most of the victims are also young black men.
     
  12. It is far too easy to appear to prove something from statistics when in fact the figures mean nothing.

    I have for example seen the pro speed camera, and the anti speed camera groups try to claim the same sets of statistics prove their argument. The real problem is that most things have multiple causes and highlighting just one factor is usually meaningless
     
  13. The point that I am trying to make is
    Gun & Knife crime is committed mainly by non whites, Because of political correctness the police can no longer stop & search, if they do they are branded racist. Is it time for the non white community to rectify the problems in their community. Someone has already mentioned, though it is fairly obvious from the media that the majority of this crime is black on black.
    Are there any solutions to these problems?
     
  14. 13yo boy charged with murdering 14yo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6540089.stm

    What we dont know is WHY
    Newspapers/TV News can speculate but only those holding the gun/knife know why they do it.....

    Until we know the true reasons/causes we are buggered when trying to fight to stop it
     
  15. Can there ever be a justifiable reason (unless in a war situation) for knifing or shooting another human being?
     
  16. As far as the use of Sus is concerned, whilst it may well have been a good tool when it started like any tool that is abused it fails to be as effective after the abuse.

    Wher I live, gun and knife crime is equally a problem but it is carried out by white people not by afro carribeans, so perhaps it isnot so much a race problem as a crime problem. Once again the need is to prosecute more people, going tooled up is only cool if you don't get caught. Catch more and you will have less, set up metal detectors at clubs and make 100% go through, have check points in shopping centers, once again 100% check. If we mean to cut this sort of crime we actually have to one do something and two accept some disruption, after all we are quite happy to accept security checks at airports. This is however one area where I would also agree with stiffer sentences, the sentences for physical violence are often very light in my opinion compared say to crime involving property. GBH will get around 2 years whilst for examle a money launderer up here got 12 years, in my book GBH should be seen as requiring as much punishment as money laundering.
     
  17. Peter
    From my memories of Fife the non white population is extremely small compared with areas in England such as London, Reading, Birmingham etc. this means that any crime figures would reflect this low ethnic mix. When I worked in Fife (14 years ago) I did not see many non whites, those I did see normally worked in the Indian takeaway or restaurant.
    I am in full agreement with you that we need to do more to detect the carrying of weapons and also increase the severity of sentences. I don't know why their is a reluctance on the part of political parties (All Parties) to return to the Borstals of the 60s. This form of punishment though harsh worked very effectively in reducing the numbers who re offended.
     
  18. Home defence, anyone getting past the dog and coming upstairs in my house crosses a boundary and becomes a potential target.

    For my sins ( I must have been bad) I now live in Dublin. In Ireland, they allow you to defend yourself "in your own home".

    The influx of Africans is a very recent occurence in Ireland, most gun crime here is committed by white drug gangs, with a considerable number of execution style murders and machine gun battles on the M50 (well one battle). The east Europeans are becoming increasingly involved in violent crime.
     
  19. Cant have borstals, would be against their Human Rights to get them up that early and to (god forbid) do something useful......

    While they are serving time, would we also be able to shave their heads and make them wear pink jump suits all day / every day so that when out doing clean up work, everyone knows who they are ?
     
  20. I was referring to the whole of Scotland, and yest our immigrant population is different to that experienced by places like London, but we still have the same problem without having the afro carribean population so perhaps it is not the race that is the problem.

    As for Borstals we still have them just now they have different names, and of course the regimes are some what different, but then the borstal regime did not stop people reoffending now did it. And then the deterent was not so much the incarceration but being caught, and being caught is still the answer, people commit crimes because they think they will get away with it.
     

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