Guidance needed for phase 3 Discharge Shock

Templer1

Newbie
I'm posting on behalf of a phase three recruit who's career is in tatters after failing smq's for the submariners.

This recruit has spent the last year training as a royal navy chef and passed out from Raleigh with no issues, he chose to train as a chef in the navy because he wanted to combine his love for food with an exhilarating career with the navy, he has dyslexia and struggled to get where he did but not knowing the level of exams in submariners he struggled to pass them doing the same smq's as submarine operators no support was given as the guidelines state should happen for people with SpLD

He asked for a possible transfer to surface fleet as a chef as that role is needed across the board but was denied when another sonar operator was told he can transfer to surface fleet as a chef !
consequently he was denied transfer to surface fleet and discharged from the navy for three years, the standard of support and training at Raleigh was amazing but faslane training has destroyed this young man ???
 
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Drakey

War Hero
I suspect he was a CHEF. I also suspect that there is possibly more to this story that we have been told.
 

Templer1

Newbie
yea he was a chef and no there is nothing else to the story, this is why we are shocked at the discharge and feel he was made and example due to others failing smq's and given 3 year suspension from rejoining on an academic discharge
 
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soleil

War Hero
yea he was a chief and no there is nothing else to the story, this is why we are shocked at the discharge and feel he was made and example due to others failing smq's and given 3 year suspension from rejoining on an academic discharge
He was a CHEF not a Chief, Templer1. Perhaps it's your phone auto-correcting wrongly.

Is your concern for the young man that of a parent?
 

guns1969

War Hero
yea he was a chief and no there is nothing else to the story, this is why we are shocked at the discharge and feel he was made and example due to others failing smq's and given 3 year suspension from rejoining on an academic discharge
Spam ?
 

Templer1

Newbie
chef chef yes he is a sorry lol and my concern is that hes been mad an example of for some reason and incorrectly discharged with options given to other recruits and not him
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
Knowing some of the SMQ staff I would say there's a lot more to this, especially as h he's been given 3 years before he can re-apply.
 

slim

War Hero
As a PSOF I find it strange that the RN would train someone for a trade and then after all the expense of training not allow him to transfer from submarines to surface fleet. If the RN were short of Chefs I would have thought that this would be almost automatic.
I think that there is far more to this case than your son is telling you.
 

Templer1

Newbie
he is going to appeal the decision, but is there any guidance or regulations on discharges or can they just make up there own time scales ?
 

Templer1

Newbie
Slim we have the papers of discharge and all correspondence between the instructors and the recruit, trust me it was just for an educational discharge nothing else
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
As a former Divisional Officer to Phase 2 submariners I sent a few home as DUDT (Discharged Unsuitable During Training) and it's not an overnight thing.

They have to get 3 official warnings, interviews with a Personnel Selection Officer, interview with his DO, medicals and possibly a case conference.

there's many stages to discharging someone and the person goes before the Commander who has final say, the person has a chance to state his case at any point.
 

Templer1

Newbie
Thank you WreckerL I can understand there are many interventions in a discharge if you read what had happend with another recruit being offered a transfer and re training as a chef while this lad gets a three year educational discharge, he had asked to be tranfered as the smq's were impossible for him to pass due to his dyslexia
 

pompeyexpat

War Hero
Nobody wants you to think they're calling you a liar I'm sure, but I'll back up what Wrecker's said here. I've worked in Phase 2/3 training and am now in Phase 1 and have had occasions to refer Ratings and Young Officers with SpLDs for further assessment. It is of course possible that nobody in SMQ North took any action, but I have to say it's unlikely. We are audited regularly on all the processes we employ in the instruction and care of our trainees, whatever stage of training or professional course they may be at. I'd be very surprised if he wasn't given assistance for any SpLD. As I say though, please don't think I'm accusing you of lying, I'm merely commenting based on my experience working in training.

Three years to reapply seems like a very long time too, longer than I've heard of for anyone being given, which for me suggests a deeper issue than simply failing exams. I, like you, fail to see why having successfully completed his Phase 2 Chefs training he wouldn't be allowed to transfer to General Service. As far as I'm aware the Chefs branch is a shortage branch in both GS and SMs. Which again to me suggests there being more to this.

There is an appeals process detailed in the link Soleil posted which is definitely worth looking into if you believe he has been unfairly treated, and I wish you well with it.
 

Templer1

Newbie
Thank you Pompey for that insight, when asked why he keeps failing his exams he replied with his educational struggles "dyslexia" and told they would make a note of that and after the next exam fail he was given a ngt1 warning for no effort in exams.

if they looked into his schooling exam results this would have been clear but the officer only referred back to how well he did in his psychometric test where he did well and stated he must be failing the exams on purpose so it sounds like the officer took a personal opinion over factual one
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
You imply it was down to one officer, this is not the case as any repeated failures flag up and are reviewed by others. As Pompeyexpat has said, all training is subject to outside regular audit, including OFSTED.

I was also an instructor for a while and anyone who failed the exam automatically had the exam paper re-marked by another person. If everybody got the same question wrong it would flag up in the QA cell and the exam paper reviewed.

When all is said and done discharge is the last resort, it costs about £7/8k just to get someone to Raleigh gate so the RN have invested a lot of money in to the lad by the time he got to SMQ, so there has to be a good reason to abandon that investment.
 
IMHO those of us who have passed/romped/squeezed through the hoops would be particularly wary of knowing that any borderline failure was given the nod - especially when submariners need to rely upon each other totally in potential life-threatening scenarios.

Whilst I've been out of loop for a long time both @pompeyexpat and @WreckerL's responses indicate that current procedures continue to ensure that (potential submarine chef through to perisher candidate - inset any other branch or role) there are still minimum standards that just have to be met.

A sad but one-sided account - To echo the previous poster '..there has to be a good reason to abandon that investment.'
 

Templer1

Newbie
IMHO It is very sad i know, wast of money and in training, one sided yea but I would love the officer who made that redicolas decision and explain how he justifies recommending a 3 year ban on re-joining the navy for failing these exams and offering to train another recruit who failed exams as a chef.

something has gone wrong somewhere but we have no idea what, he will be appealing the decision and hope it will shed some light on the situation and i'll update here on the out come, so thank you the advice i did get from some and the confirmation from others that its not the norm for this to happen.
 

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