Guardian: "Women To Serve On RN Submarines From 2013"

#41
If the cap fits wear it Princess. Bullying is not tolerated in the Royal Navy simple as, if your experience personal or otherwise, suggests differently I would suggest you have failed in your duty by not reporting it through the Chain of Command and instead making allegations of harrasment and bullying on an internet forum.

Have a nice evening
IDOITDEEPER
Not very original but very predictable of you to turn this around. I don't beleive I have made any allegations on this forum and I refuse to be drawn any further into your "closed ranks" argument.

A very good evening to you too.
 
#42
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As an observation,

Those qualified to wear the Dolphins will be bemused with these dark implications of perceived ‘harassment and bullying’, particularly as there is now this recently-introduced facility:
Bullying - Armed Forces Bullying, Navy, Air Force, Army Bullying Available to one & all, including those incoming females.

In my day, and I would be very surprised if it has changed, any half-decent submariner would usually go that extra mile to assist the keen Part 3 to qualify (and thus remove them from the ‘Passenger List’). That said, it’s an endless and often a frustrating and thankless additional task; especially when the less than keen Pt 3 Trainee:

can manage neither his time nor personal admin,
appears precious, precocious or condescending,
is argumentative or thinks he knows it all already,
tries to do more talking than listening,
is just plain slow and/or dumb,
cannot see that any of the above could possibly apply to himself.

Its during such training ‘close encounters with the 3rd kind’ that their personalities and foibles became apparent. Some need considerably more inducements than others to make satisfactory progress; both at their S/M training and in adapting to the rigors and routines of close confinement and separation from their previous comfort zones. System knowledge aside, just learning to live & work together in harmony is guaranteed to place unexpected demands on the endurance and patience of even the mildest of personalities. They often forget that those with whom they interact with must still cope with those demands, too.

Besides ‘knowledge’, the bottom line for all of those involved in awarding those Dolphins must surely still include:

‘Our lives are likely to depend upon this person; whatever our needs - Do we really want them among us?’



I’m well out of the loop but I’d be interested to learn what happens to a person finally unable to qualify Part 3 these days - Are those recruited specifically to the S/M Service given the option of discharge or retraining GS/FAA?


Bob
 
#43
I recall the SM navigators course coming on Campbeltown and expressing surprise at not being constantly shouted at and abused. Strangely in the environment that we provided them they were able to concentrate on developing their professional skills and pass the course.

Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
But could he still do the job when the shit had really hit the fan and wasnt in a calm sympathetic enviroment?
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#45
A feature of the practical part of my Subs' Navigation course (on the bridge of HMS Redpole in the Solent) was deliberate harrassment for very good reasons, in my case culminating in (off Ryde Pier) "Seaweed, when you have quite finished trying to run my ship aground, perhaps you'd like to tell me where we are?".

One happy day returning to Portsmouth past the Nab, as Sub-Lieutenantly SSD OOW of Tiger, I heard the Navigating Officer field a drop of fussing from the Captain as follows: Captain Hutchings: "Which side do we go past this buoy Pilot?" NO: "It's really quite simple SIR, red ones to port, black ones to starboard." Peace and silence for NO to get on with his job. NO promoted out of that ship so no hard feelings!

So also Guns (same Captain): "Permission to engage Sir?" " Engage" "SHOOT!" ding-ding. Silence. More silence. Captain: "What is the delay Guns?" Guns: "Just you f...ing well wait, SIR."

Sorry if I've run those before.
 

wet_blobby

War Hero
Moderator
#46
The hack talks about women not being able to join SF... I may be wrong but I thought they could join the SRR?
They were in 14 int as well. Not strictly SF but up there in my eyes.

Women service personnel are suprisingly similar to their male counterparts. Some are ace, some are average and some are shit. Funny that.
 
#48
Caroline Dinenage seems to know what she's talking about...:tard:

Tory Caroline Dinenage, of Gosport, said the new arrangement was 'confirmation of what many of us know, that women can do everything that men can do... better'.
 
#49
Genuine question as Mr GS doesn't know the answer.

Which is it?

a) There is no risk to a foetus from the CO2 rich atmosphere.

OR

b) We don't actually know if there is a risk to a foetus from the CO2 rich atmosphere so we're going to cover our arses and ensure that there is sufficient spare O2 inboard to hook the pregnant crew member up to till we can break patrol and medivac her just in case.
 
#50
Genuine question as Mr GS doesn't know the answer.

Which is it?

a) There is no risk to a foetus from the CO2 rich atmosphere.

OR

b) We don't actually know if there is a risk to a foetus from the CO2 rich atmosphere so we're going to cover our arses and ensure that there is sufficient spare O2 inboard to hook the pregnant crew member up to till we can break patrol and medivac her just in case.
Good question, well asked!
 

hackle

Lantern Swinger
Moderator
#51
======================================================

======================================================

As an observation,

Those qualified to wear the Dolphins will be bemused with these dark implications of perceived ‘harassment and bullying’, particularly as there is now this recently-introduced facility:
Bullying - Armed Forces Bullying, Navy, Air Force, Army Bullying Available to one & all, including those incoming females. ...
Bob, fair points but just in case of anyone looking for help and possibly misunderstanding, the "Forces Helpline" site you linked to is an entirely unofficial initiative by former soldiers - nothing wrong with that - and not to be confused with "Forcesline" provided by SSAFA -

https://ssl8.lon.gb.securedata.net/ssafa.org.uk/line/supportLinePage1.asp
 
#52
Genuine question as Mr GS doesn't know the answer.

Which is it?

a) There is no risk to a foetus from the CO2 rich atmosphere.

OR

b) We don't actually know if there is a risk to a foetus from the CO2 rich atmosphere so we're going to cover our arses and ensure that there is sufficient spare O2 inboard to hook the pregnant crew member up to till we can break patrol and medivac her just in case.

Official party line is a) and we don't have "spare" O2 onboard and on surface ships pregnant ladies are flown off ASAP in case said lady falls down a ladder in roughers. How it would work with a bomber on patrol is yet to be seen.
 
#53
Are there any rules/restrictions about 'women of childbearing age' crossing the 'Tunnel'? I seem to remember we couldn't take female visitors back aft because of this. Mind you I could be going senile....
 
#55
Obviously I'm too thick to understand. Either there is no risk to a foetus therefore O2 wouldn't be required or there is a risk/they don't know and have to install the additional O2 tanks etc. They can't have it both ways.

This feels like an experiment with unknown and potentially devastating consequences.

I know from my own experience what it's like to live in a pressured all male environment and honestly can see no issues after the initial settling period. (the Q and A that I saw made my blood boil but that's irrelevant) It's the unknown risk to a foetus or the consequences from an ectopic that would worry me. There are no women serving on nuclear submarines in the world and it would be unethical to conduct clinical trials so I would love to know how they've come to the conclusions they have.

Ah well, Mr GS is in his last sea job so it's not going to directly affect him and I should probably wind my neck in. :D
 
#56
Hmm ... Begs the question if 02 levels are a problem as from reading this I understand that it is a given that the O2 concentration is lower on a "boat" (I don't know from personal experience having always been a skimmer) then how come all the pregnant females in the Andes who also live in a rarefied atmosphere doen't get told to get off the mountain??? I presume that over a period of time you would get used to the reduced O2??? And given that CO2 is lighter than air then with all the greenhouse gases including CO2 which is being given off by the Brazilians burning the amazon rain forest then presumabnly the CO2 concentration is likely to be higher up the mountain!
 
#57
Hmm ... Begs the question if 02 levels are a problem as from reading this I understand that it is a given that the O2 concentration is lower on a "boat" (I don't know from personal experience having always been a skimmer) then how come all the pregnant females in the Andes who also live in a rarefied atmosphere doen't get told to get off the mountain??? I presume that over a period of time you would get used to the reduced O2??? And given that CO2 is lighter than air then with all the greenhouse gases including CO2 which is being given off by the Brazilians burning the amazon rain forest then presumabnly the CO2 concentration is likely to be higher up the mountain!
Horlicks.Gases Lighter and Heavier than Air



Double Horlicks. Density of Gases
 
#59
You can vary the O2 level onboard quite easily by turning the electrolyser up a notch. When I maintained the 'lyser I used to keep the level at about 19 - 20%. Atmosphere is closely watched by the medical dept who would tell us to raise/lower the concentration as required, only became an issue if the 'lysers or associated gear went TU and SCOG's had to be used.

Don't know where all this stuff about O2 tanks and bottles comes from, O2 is produced onboard from pure water that has an electrical current passed through it (hence the machine is an electrolyser). CO2 levels are maintained by CO2 scrubbers. It's more the pressure variation that causes differences in gas concentrations.
 
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#60
Apologies, I should have been clearer.

At the moment should a woman be found to be pregnant whilst on patrol, the policy will be as follows. Crew member removed from duties, placed in an appropriate area with O2 tank and mask until such time as she can be evacuated. This information comes directly from the horse's mouth and is repeated in the press.
 

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