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Guardian: "Navy Forced To Drop Warship Patrols In Caribbean Through Lack Of Funds"

soleil

War Hero
It will seem strange if this is announced today, in the week when the new programme filmed on HMS Manchester begins.
 

Purple_twiglet

War Hero
Moderator
Or alternatively its a sensible decision that an RFA is probably more use in the region than a very expensive ASW Frigate. This is the sort of commitment where you need helos and disaster relief kit and not seawolf and harpoon! We only have 19 escorts to play with now, so we're going to have to be very careful where we put them.
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
But will Cameron eventually wake up to the consequences of his defence cuts as the Services start reporting inability to do what his Govt wants? Or does he just see the whole of defence as toys for the boys? I don't think he understands the first thing about it. All I see of this spiv when he comes on the box is spin, fake tan and hair dye. Blair Lite.
 

wave_dodger

MIA
Book Reviewer
Or alternatively its a sensible decision that an RFA is probably more use in the region than a very expensive ASW Frigate. This is the sort of commitment where you need helos and disaster relief kit and not seawolf and harpoon! We only have 19 escorts to play with now, so we're going to have to be very careful where we put them.

To support P_T, this is what has been done with the APT(N) for a while; when we've been stretched an RFA platform loaded with Helis/Booties has been in the Carribbean region and a T42 (which cannot do the Gulf/HoA patrols for a reason which escapes me) drops down to APT(S), particularly when there are periods of increased tension.

There was a raging, and at times interestingl, debate over on ARRSE about the RN and in particular the need for a CVF. Within that there was a useful sub-thread about the utility of the RFA (Bay class) for operations such as counter-narcotics, disaster relief, boarding-ops etc. Its not the first time that its been highlighted how capable these platforms are.

More to the meat of the thread, desperate times dictate desperate measures. If we're only funded to support so many concurrent tasks our political masters will have to be alert to the realities of what we can no longer properly support.
 
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Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Ah, but cutbacks in the RFA too ... I would have thought the RFA was primarily there to resupply the guardship now that we have no naval base in the area.

I would point you all to 'Drinking for the Raj' but RRPedia is still adrift.
 
C

canteenflat

Guest
Or alternatively its a sensible decision that an RFA is probably more use in the region than a very expensive ASW Frigate. This is the sort of commitment where you need helos and disaster relief kit and not seawolf and harpoon! We only have 19 escorts to play with now, so we're going to have to be very careful where we put them.
High speed Coast Guard Cutters
crewed by Royal Marines operating from a RFA perhaps?
 
We only have 19 escorts to play with now, so we're going to have to be very careful where we put them.

Leaving aside the unfortunate choice of verb, that highlights a large part of the current problem. Our DD/FF forces are considered to be escorts for more capable Fleet units and the Merchant convoys that we no longer operate. In the past, though, the frigates' value was their ability to operate independently pursuing the Queen's business. So we now tie them to Carriers we don't have and Amph warfare ships we have occasional (but are important when we do) need for.

We make RFAs the new frigates then? Well, funny thing is, the same Capital assets that need the DD/FFs also need the Oilers and Solid supports. So that leaves us with the Bay Class; with no serious facilities for supporting an embarked HELO and a patrol speed of much less than 20 knots. So how about a Wave Class that can support a HELO? No facility for long range boarding craft and the same low dash speed.

Core bread and butter Naval tasks are now being abandoned: the sort of tasks that genuinely make us safer at home and project our National interests to the places where they really matter.
 
C

canteenflat

Guest
Leaving aside the unfortunate choice of verb, that highlights a large part of the current problem. Our DD/FF forces are considered to be escorts for more capable Fleet units and the Merchant convoys that we no longer operate. In the past, though, the frigates' value was their ability to operate independently pursuing the Queen's business. So we now tie them to Carriers we don't have and Amph warfare ships we have occasional (but are important when we do) need for.

We make RFAs the new frigates then? Well, funny thing is, the same Capital assets that need the DD/FFs also need the Oilers and Solid supports. So that leaves us with the Bay Class; with no serious facilities for supporting an embarked HELO and a patrol speed of much less than 20 knots. So how about a Wave Class that can support a HELO? No facility for long range boarding craft and the same low dash speed.

Core bread and butter Naval tasks are now being abandoned: the sort of tasks that genuinely make us safer at home and project our National interests to the places where they really matter.
Transitive verbs aside, my father warned where I put it-- not them.
 

gammaguy117

Lantern Swinger
Am I right in thinking we are not the only ones conducting anti-narcotic operations?
It's not like they are going to be able to run free with no-one to stop them.
 
Fair point; we could leave the whole bloody lot for somebody else to do. It would save a shed load of money for tit enlargements/overage test tube babies/etc and more time at school for illiterate juveniles.
 
A

angrydoc

Guest
I'm not sure (though not denying) this is all the current Government's fault. These cuts were always coming.

I am not sure why we are still referring to DD/FF as escorts - as has been pointed out, there is little to escort so they are essentially individual assets.

I think we should defend our core business. Delegating (if that is the correct term) to the RFA can only be a short-term solution. Whilst capable, an RFA is not always an adequate replacement for a warship. It is not what the RFA is for. This is not a criticism of the RFA (I am currently on board one!), more a statement of fact.
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I'm not sure (though not denying) this is all the current Government's fault. These cuts were always coming.

I am not sure why we are still referring to DD/FF as escorts - as has been pointed out, there is little to escort so they are essentially individual assets.

I think we should defend our core business. Delegating (if that is the correct term) to the RFA can only be a short-term solution. Whilst capable, an RFA is not always an adequate replacement for a warship. It is not what the RFA is for. This is not a criticism of the RFA (I am currently on board one!), more a statement of fact.

How was Camilla?
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
Good guess / deduction!

She was very nice. Genuinely interested in what we do and keen to speak to everyone.


I met her and her other half when I was invited down to the Victoria a couple of years ago as part of the 100 year RFA anniversary, I found them both to be the same as far as the interest thing goes
 

the_ullage

Midshipman
This would seem to make a strong case for building a class of relatively cheap and therefore numerous ships for this kind of operation - where the presence of naval forces is needed rather than lots of hi-tec kit.
 

Shackles_and_Flags

Lantern Swinger
This would seem to make a strong case for building a class of relatively cheap and therefore numerous ships for this kind of operation - where the presence of naval forces is needed rather than lots of hi-tec kit.

Dont know about cost, but there there are 3 ships waiting in Portsmouth- just need someone to actually pay for them and man them!!!
 
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