Guantanamo Five branded dangerous

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by slim, Aug 13, 2007.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. So let's bring them all home and release them into the community.
    We listened to the yanks and went into Iraq on their say so. Are these en dangerous as they say? Or is it another weapons of mass destruction lie?
    Either way the UK needs to determine correctly their status.

    From the grunion cos lots of you don't believe the wail

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6844466,00.html
     
  2. The take in the current Economist is that it's an indicator of the changing political imperatives between the UK and the US following the change of PM here.
     
  3. I believe that Brown is slowly breaking away from being a puppet of the USA.
    The labour government have also engineered the change of premier at just the right time. With approximately two years to an automatic general election Brown is staring to gain the confidence of the electorate. Unless the conservatives change their leader soon then we will almost certainly suffer yet another four years at the hands of a labour government.
     
  4. If you've never seen it, there is an American film called "Why we Fight" (2005) which is very worthy watching and a complete eye opener for some.
    Available Here although you might need a plugin to watch it online.
    Old news to many, but still worth it in my opinion :)
     
  5. I really do think the one thing that would guarantee a Brown victory would be another change of Tory leadership. The present sniping at Cameron is just telling the electorate that the Tories have yet to get their act together and are thus unfit for government.
     
  6. At present the labour party is the only one with the ability to run the country, and they are not doing it very well. What ever happenned to credible opposition?
     
  7. No current party is fit for government.
     
  8. I'd go the other direction and say the party needs to unite behind one leader and demonstrate some maturity around operating as a unified organisation.

    Cameron may have his faults, but dropping him now and changing horses yet again is unlikely to fill people with much confidence.

    I think that the Tory party has a similar problem to the Lib Dems at the moment, there are two school sof political thinking within the party and there is a need to reconcile those and come up with a coherent, credible, portfolio of policies. for the Lib Dems its the balance between Economic and Social Liberalism, for the Tories it's the balance between Economic Liberalism and Social Authoritarianism.
     
  9. There hasn't been one for some time as the Tories and LDs keep imploding in leadership back stabbing
     
  10. Valid point, but for different reasons I fear, one is just incompetant and the other one is unable to keeping marching in step for long enough for any one to see whether it might be competant.
     
  11. I would like to see Wiliam Haig back in the driving seat. he was too young and inexperienced the first time but he is now a mature intelligent well rounded politician (well if thats possible).
     
  12. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    Tories should have gone for

    Leader.....Nicholas Soames
    Deputy....Boris Johnston
    Shadow Home Sec...Norman Tebbit

    If nothing else it would be entertaining, any other suggestions for various posts?
     
  13. In principle I agree, both these parties need to decide and pretty damm quickly if they wish to aspire to government or if they would prefer to be well paid debating societies
     
  14. I think that one of the issues is that there is now little to differentiate them. they all share much the same economic policies; free-market production, a moderate tax take and exploiting market pressures in public sector provision. They're really just divergent in terms of what they want to do with the tax equity.

    Some of what redwood came up with last week was quite interesting, but it risks throwing the proverbial baby out. Much of it is also pretty much a re-badging of what the Better Regulation Taskforce came up with a couple of years ago and is now being taken forward by the Dept of Business enterprise and Regulatory reform.
     
  15. Going off topic, I would consider voting for a government which promised a complete income tax system overhaul. What is the point of an extremely low tax free allowance. This means that tax has to be reclaimed in the form of tax credits for many. Others on low incomes are paying proportionally far more of their income than is morally right.
     
  16. I would like to see, at the end of each financial year, a public breakdown of EXACTLY where our taxes have gone. For ALL taxes, not just income tax. Road Tax (Call it what you like, its a tax) National Insurance, Council Tax, VAT, everything.
    And in a way that a financial thicky like me can understand, too :)
     
  17. Karma

    I think the fundamental rpoblem is that politics are no longer deliniated by the concept of 'class war' and the deciding voters are in general middle of the road moderately comfortable citizens so the core of any party which wishes to gain control must satisfy these floating voters or fail. Just as Labour failed to defeat Thacher by swinging to the left and only became acceptable when they were both unified and showing up as Tory Lite, the Tories need to be more centrist and more unified to give Gordon a bloody nose. Equally although the LDs are probably not in the short term going to have the chance to be more than coalition partners they still need to attack that same mainsteam floating voter who is not certainly in the first chance going to vote for higher taxes what ever the benefit.

    Mr Redwood seems to be mellowing with age and experience. Shortkly after he was elected he was looking for a house in the constituency and amongst many I suspect viwed a mate house. He came over so well them my mate said he would not have sold to him whatever he offered, and that was a Tory voter too. Mind you he was a bit of a shock to the town after so many years of old Strawberry Knees.
     
  18. Back to the topic subject matter...

    Is it true that none of these 5 individuals are actually British citizens? If this is true why are they coming here? :toilet:
     
  19. The FCO press release published on the 7th:



    GUANTANAMO BAY: FORMER UK RESIDENTS (07/08/07)

    The Foreign Secretary and the Home Secretary have decided to request the release from Guantanamo Bay and return to the UK of five men who, whilst not UK Nationals, were legally resident here prior to their detention. The Foreign Secretary has written today to US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to formally make this request.

    The Government welcomes recent steps taken by the US Government to reduce the numbers of those detained at Guantanamo Bay and to move towards the closure of the detention facility. These steps include an increasing emphasis on engagement with third countries over the transfer and resettlement of those detained.

    The Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary have reviewed the Government’s approach to this group of individuals in light of these ongoing developments, our long-held policy aim of securing the closure of Guantanamo Bay, and the need to maintain national security.

    They have decided to request the release and return of the five detainees who have links to the UK as former residents, having been granted refugee status, indefinite leave or exceptional leave to remain prior to their detention: Mr Shaker Aamer, Mr Jamil El Banna, Mr Omar Deghayes, Mr Binyam Mohamed and Mr Abdennour Sameur. Our representations are limited to those with links to the United Kingdom as evidenced by their past lawful residence here.

    Discussions with the US Government about the release and return of these five men may take some time. The Government will of course continue to take all necessary measures to maintain national security. Should these men be returned to the UK, the same security considerations and actions will apply to them as would apply to any other foreign national in this country.

    Notes for Editors
    # By January 2005, the Government had secured the release and return of all the UK nationals detained in Guantanamo Bay. But we have not, so far, requested the release and return of this group of individuals. The Government's decision not to do so was upheld by High Court and Court of Appeal rulings last year.
    # The Courts accepted our judgement that requesting the return of individuals who were not British nationals would have been ineffective: the US had made clear that they did not intend to negotiate with third countries regarding non-nationals. We judged that it would also have been counter-productive, at that time, to our wider aim of securing closure of the detention facility. As set out above, the situation has now changed and the Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary have reviewed the Government’s approach in light of these circumstances.
     
  20. They are coming here as they live here, all 5 have families that have been born and brought up in the UK. Of course the Yanks are going to say they are dangerous as they have held them illegally for at least 5-years. They have to have a reason for holding them in Camp Delta so they are "bad men who are dangerous".
     

Share This Page