Grenfell Tower

fishhead

War Hero
It is hard to come up with a meaningful comment on this appalling event. There are thousands of unanswered question as to how and why. My gut feeling as there are some people are trying to work out how they can slide the blame when the inevitable Inquiry seeks to find out some answers.
My heart goes out to all those who have lost relations to the flames and those who have lost everything but their lives.
 

Sumo

War Hero
From what's been reported, and we all trust our press! There may be many heads heading for the block.

When we have a new class of vessel built, we try to look at through life support, looks like the FB were not consulted on how they would fight a disaster, like this? Making them look better did not necessarily make them safe, town planners, builder, owners will be panicking, especially when many residence have raised issues of safety in the buildings . as @fishhead nothing constructive we can say.
 

repoman

War Hero
Aside from the deceased and the grieving relatives, I feel for the Firies and other emergency service workers who have to put their lives on the line during this horrific incident. It is going to leave a lot of psychological scars for everyone involved.
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Super Moderator
I didn't envy the fire crews having to climb up 24 floors in BA, fighting the fires and carrying out body searches.

Shades of Towering Inferno there.
 
Until a Coroner's beak gets into this, there's lots of assuming, guessing and accusing but very little knowing. The chances are, there isn't just one major weakness that caused the catastrophe. More likely there were several minor ones that all coincided; the Swiss cheese principle where all the holes line up at the same time. Only when the investigation can be completed will all the contributory factors be known. One thing this has revealed is how rich this Country is in fire safety experts.
 
Until a Coroner's beak gets into this, there's lots of assuming, guessing and accusing but very little knowing. The chances are, there isn't just one major weakness that caused the catastrophe. More likely there were several minor ones that all coincided; the Swiss cheese principle where all the holes line up at the same time. Only when the investigation can be completed will all the contributory factors be known. One thing this has revealed is how rich this Country is in fire safety experts.
Sadly the Coroner will be no wiser. It will never be known the number of illegal tenants there were. Notwithstanding their Tenancy Agreements many of the flats in the building were flats of multiple occupation. The absolute number of dead will be lost on us forever.
 
pablo the fishermann a fair point but finding the fire's cause and means of progression is probably more important than knowing how many perished or who they were.
 

slim

War Hero
Another View on Grenfell

Shamelessly stolen from another site

Socialist disinformation?

Interesting, assuming it's true ......

Before anyone joins the Theresa May lynch mob, here are some FACTS relating to the Grenfell tragedy..

1. The block of flats was run, not by the Council but by KCTMO. This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.
2. Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.
3. Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service
4. Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward, also sat on the KCTMO.
5. The advice to stay put, which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about, was given by the London Fire Service.
6. The decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.
7. The decision not to spend an additional ?138k on fitting sprinklers was again KCTMO.
8. The decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.
9. This was put in place to give leaseholders and tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which in some circumstances has clearly proven to be flawed.
10. Which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? It was Labour.
11. Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.
12. Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group, who are being accused of not listening to tenants. ,

It's a modern lynch mob encouraged by bitter Labour MPs, who, having lost an election, want to destroy an elected government for a chance of a second election.
 

geoff67

Newbie
great post above, the worst thing is Corbyn turns up there to score points straight after such a tragedy, preying upon the people of the affected area stricken with grief, poisoning their minds!
 
G

guestm

Guest
great post above, the worst thing is Corbyn turns up there to score points straight after such a tragedy, preying upon the people of the affected area stricken with grief, poisoning their minds!
it's not great. it's absolute bollocks. Already shot down in another thread, here's a reminder:

Some context to the janner post and it's REAL FACTS(sic):

Here you go Slim, another one to enjoy

Before you join the Theresa May lynch mob here are some FACTS relating to the Grenfell tragedy..

1. The block of flats was run not by the Council but by KCTMO. This body is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.
It is run by KCTMO on behalf of the council, a subcontract in a way. The council maintains accountability and still manages the budget, completely.

2 Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.
The council is 40 Tory, 7 Labour. The Grenfell tower seat being Labour means nothing in that context.

As for the wider consituency, it was won by Labour for the first time ever a week prior to the fire and 5 years after the renovation. It has always been a Tory constituency.

3 Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service
Under funded being key, to quote Amber Rudd, there is no magic money tree for Sadiq Khan to shake, he deals with what the government give him. The austerity cuts to the London fire service were made by his predeccessor, Boris Johnson. Khan has been outspoken about no more cuts and increasing funding since he became Mayor.

4 Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.
She was not on the board when the renovation was carried out, when the contractor was changed or the safety lapses came to light and were being reported and ignored.

5 The advice to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.
Which is SOP.

6 The decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.
Due to the orginal contractor exceeding the proposed budget. Again, hamstrung by funding by a Conservative council who signed off on all the work.

7 The decision not to spend an additional £138k on fitting sprinklers was again KCTMO.
See above. Plus it's the Tory governemnt who ignored the report that called for Tower Block sprinkler installation for tower blocks after the Camberwell fire.

8 The decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.
Which is pretty well backed by all parties.
KCTMO was actually founded under John Major's government and has been controlling properties for 20 years.


9 This was put in place to give leaseholders and tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which in some circumstances has clearly proven to be flawed.
True, but it's 50/50. Equally in some cases it works well and protects buildings and tenants.

10 Which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? It was Labour.
See 8, well backed by all parties.
11 Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.
False, he didn't. He said when he was housing minister that Fire spending was increasing. Way, way before more recent austerity cuts.
12 Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.
See 4.

It's a modern lynch mob encouraged by bitter Labour MPs who having lost a close election want to destroy an elected government for a chance of a second election.
The above is another case of misrepresentation of information by omitting key facts. Myth - busted.
 

geoff67

Newbie
or interpretation of events and information depending on what political party you support. Each to their own, a person can hold their own oppinion and believe in it, thats what democracy is remember, something quickly forgotton by the left.
 
G

guestm

Guest
or interpretation of events and information depending on what political party you support. Each to their own, a person can hold their own oppinion and believe in it, thats what democracy is remember, something quickly forgotton by the left.
The original post's 'opinion' is lies and misdirection. You're basically advocating bullshit, which is a huge issue wherever you sit on the political spectrum.

'Lies are cool as long as they fit my 'opinion'. Nice one.
 
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