Greed on the Underground

#1
At a time when the economy is doing less than brilliantly the RMT Union are going to strike for a pay rise almost twice (5%) that which was awarded to the Armed Forces (2.8%). They were offered inflation plus 0.5% (approx 3.6% at January's inflation index) but rejected the offer.

How on Earth can they justify striking when the economy is in such crisis, causing more loss to the economy, and misery for millions of London Commuters, for a pay rise which is nothing more than greed. When almost every private sector worker has had to take a cut to their salaries, often greater than the rise they are asking for. Are they completely out of touch with reality?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8090376.stm
 
#3
The comparison between what the RMT is asking for and what the Forces got is a bit tenuous. The poeple to complain to about that are the Government who decide how much Joe Squadie is going to get not Unionised labour.
As with most Unionised labour, the employees negotiators are there to promote the well being of it's membership, not the Nation.
The usual ploy is to ask for at least 1-1.5% more than the union Executive actually expect and then 'negotiate' down closer to the Employers offer.
As an ex ASLEF member (Train Drivers Comintern...er I mean Union.), I took part in the wild cat strikes on the Underground of the late 80's to help win substantial increases for Train Drivers who had been lumbered with One Person Operation, which I thought was a fair outcome as workloads and been increased by half.
I also used to love catching commuters in the doors. :twisted:
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#4
I am angry by this planned course of action. I am a strong advocate of people plower and the right to fair and appropriate pay and working conditions, but given the current climate - and that they are calling for more pay for less hours - I think the RMT have scored an own goal here; the planned action will garner very little public sympathy, in my opinion.

Especially as I will be travelling to Wembley to watch the England v Andorra game on Wednesday; no LU tube trains will add approximately an extra hour onto my planned journey - this does not include the planned overnight South West Trains engineering work in the Portsmouth area, so there will be a rail replacement bus service south of Havant...:evil:

The Transport For London website news release advises:

TfL said:
The Mayor and Transport for London (TfL) have unveiled a raft of extra services as part of a major effort to help Londoners and commuters get around the Capital, if a planned 48-hour Tube strike goes ahead this week.

Plans include extra buses, access to all Greater London National Rail services with Oyster pay as you go, taxi sharing at major rail stations, escorted commuter cycle rides, additional cycle parking and a free River shuttle service.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) Union has called its members out for 48 hours from 18:59 on Tuesday 9 June to 18:58 on Thursday 11 June.

Normal services would resume on the morning of Friday 12 June.

The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, said: 'I am determined to do as much as is humanly possible to ease the journeys of the millions of Londoners whose lives may be disrupted if strike action takes place.

'The plans we are setting out call for a team effort over the next few days by everyone in this great city to ensure we keep the Capital running.

'The myriad of organisations and individuals that have already agreed to lay on free services, lead cycle rides, drive extra services and marshal shared taxi ranks exemplifies the united approach we will need.

'Londoners can be assured a tremendous amount is being done to keep them moving if a strike does happen.'

Check before travelling
Londoners and commuters are being advised to make absolutely certain they plan ahead and check before they travel should the strike go ahead. All the latest travel information and details of alternative travel options will be available via the TfL website and London media bulletins.

The impact on Tube services is likely to be significant, but TfL has prepared plans to keep London moving and is urging everyone travelling in London on strike days to consider the range of travel options including walking and cycling and to stagger normal journeys where possible.

Transport Commissioner, Peter Hendy, said: 'We continue to make every effort to reach an agreement with our unions and have made further substantive assurances on jobs as well as a revised pay offer.

'We regret the disruption the strike will cause if it goes ahead as the impact on Tube services is likely to be significant.

'However, the Mayor and TfL have prepared plans to keep London moving and thousands of TfL staff will be on hand across the city to help our passengers.

'A massive effort is being made including boosting bus and river services, providing escorted commuter cycle rides and more central London cycle parking, and distributing thousands of walking maps at central London rail and Tube stations.

'Pay as you go will also be accepted on all National Rail services within Greater London and there will be marshalled taxi sharing facilities at six major rail stations.

'We urge everyone travelling in and around London during the strike to check before you travel and to consider the wide range of alternative travel otions by going online to tfl.gov.uk as well as staggering your normal journeys where possible.'

Over the two main days of the strike, TfL staff will be on hand across the bus network and at Tube stations to offer travel advice and will be distributing walking maps in central London.

Those bus drivers and other public transport workers who are on duty will be doing their very best to keep London moving and passengers' patience is asked for over what may be difficult journeys.

Tube
The RMT leadership plan a strike from 18:59 on Tuesday 9 June to 18:58 on Thursday 11 June, with normal services resuming on the morning of Friday 12 June.

Customers using the Underground on the Tuesday evening are advised to finish their journeys by 19:00 to ensure they get home, as services are likely to decline after this time.

Buses
London Buses operates more than 700 routes with services being boosted by up to 100 extra buses on key routes on strike days.

National Rail
Oyster pay as you go will be accepted on all National Rail journeys within Greater London on Wednesday and Thursday, just show your Oyster card at station gate lines.

Taxis
During the morning peak hours of 08:00-10:30, taxi drivers will be operating a marshalled, fixed-fare shared taxi service for central London destinations at seven major London rail termini: Waterloo, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Marylebone, Paddington and Euston.

DLR and London Overground
Services will be operating as normal.

Roads and the Congestion Charge
To help keep traffic flowing, TfL will be suspending roadworks on major London roads wherever possible and the Congestion Charge will remain in operation.

Where possible, Londoners and commuters are encouraged to consider alternatives to the car.
 
#5
Here's a plan. Get yourself a Hi Vis vest, a pair of manky overalls preferably orange and a high powered torch and then walk up the track pretending to be a contractor checking track or signalling equipment. That'll save you hours of stress and riding on buses.
Enjoy!!

PS All ASLEF train crews that can get to their depots will probably turn up for work and sit in the mess room all day drinking tea and watching SKY, all that and 30 grand a year
Makes me proud to be a Unionista! :twisted:
 

sgtpepperband

War Hero
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
NZB: I'm not walking all the feckin' way from Waterloo to Wembley! :shock:

And I only wear hi-viz clothing when I'm on duty... :wink:
 
#7
Piece of pish.
Bakerloo line North from Waterloo to Baker Street cross from Nth bound Bakerloo tracks (Platform 9) to Northbound Jubilee line (Platform 10) up to Wembley Central.
You could stop at West Hampstead for a cuppa at the greasy spoon on the Bridge and still be there by just past Midnight if you set out now! :D
 
#9
Footie - so take a cab or bus ?
'Tis true the armed forces are seriously underpaid....any Careers centre advert clearly indicates sacrifices made by serving personnel do not match their pay packets.

However, transport is a gruelling industry to work in too: long, unsociable hours, often poorly-paid yet provides vital services which are only missed when they stop running - striking maybe the only recourse open to their being heard .....compared to money that gets wasted in local govt, the NHS and Westminster on corrupt systems, administrative layers etc, the Underground staff deserve our support......5%is less than half of inflation rises of the past two years.....it's not greed.It's wanting a bigger slice of the economic cake, just like everyone else

'Greed' - more likely classed as MP's, bankers etc. milking a corrupt system these days
 
#10
Taloolah said:
Footie - so take a cab or bus ?
'Tis true the armed forces are seriously underpaid....any Careers centre advert clearly indicates sacrifices made by serving personnel do not match their pay packets.

However, transport is a gruelling industry to work in too: long, unsociable hours, often poorly-paid yet provides vital services which are only missed when they stop running - striking maybe the only recourse open to their being heard .....compared to money that gets wasted in local govt, the NHS and Westminster on corrupt systems, administrative layers etc, the Underground staff deserve our support......5%is less than half of inflation rises of the past two years.....it's not greed.It's wanting a bigger slice of the economic cake, just like everyone else

'Greed' - more likely classed as MP's, bankers etc. milking a corrupt system these days
Or they could just fcuk off and turn off their TV set and do something less boring instead!! Or get another job which warrants the wage they receive!!
 
#11
I understand they would like more money, who wouldn't? Their timing is off however, people all over the country are taking pay cuts just to keep their jobs. Some don't even have that luxury. So maybe they should get on with their jobs or take their chances on the job market.
 
#13
Man up you scallywags!!

Back to the fore or out the door! Seriously though, I have mates who would work buckshee in much worse vocations if only they were afforded the luxury of a choice. What do these folk think they are, MPs? :lol:
 
#14
Taloolah said:
Footie - so take a cab or bus ?
'Tis true the armed forces are seriously underpaid....any Careers centre advert clearly indicates sacrifices made by serving personnel do not match their pay packets.

However, transport is a gruelling industry to work in too: long, unsociable hours, often poorly-paid yet provides vital services which are only missed when they stop running - striking maybe the only recourse open to their being heard .....compared to money that gets wasted in local govt, the NHS and Westminster on corrupt systems, administrative layers etc, the Underground staff deserve our support......5%is less than half of inflation rises of the past two years.....it's not greed.It's wanting a bigger slice of the economic cake, just like everyone else

'Greed' - more likely classed as MP's, bankers etc. milking a corrupt system these days
This is sadly not the case with a job that pays between £30k-£40k for a job that requires shift work and nothing more ( i.e. not the massive amounts of overtime that many office based workers who have to use to the Underground to get to work on time can do, many of which have taken a substantial pay cut, and are still required to do beyond more than working hours.)

They have been receiving generous pay rises for many years, and have chosen a frankly offensive time to strike with regards to the economy and suffering of many hard working people.

Whilst I do not disagree that many others have received equally obscene pay rises in recent times (CEOs of recently declared bankrupt banks), public transport helps keep the economy ticking, their union knows this, and have decided to put hard working people over a barrel because of their greed at this difficult time.

The offer that was made by the Mayor's Office was in my view justified and fair in a difficult economic situation. They offered much more than was given to exceptionally hard working people across the country, who are either losing their jobs, or taking massive pay cuts to keep their jobs. To ask for a pay rise dramatically out of sync with the ordinary worker is disgraceful.
 
#15
Understand about the poor sods out of work, but the wrong people ( ie you and I) are the one's getting shafted, not financial mogules ...isn't that the problem ? I mean, the whole stack of cards fell in part to global forces partly due to the greed of finance structures and government.... ?

If wages/salaries don't rise in line with inflation, it will be up to the Unions to fight for their people.....? Each industry will fight for it's own, it's as simple as that.....and £26 isn't a whole lot for driving an underground train, not if you consider the shifts, stress of jumpers or simply working underground...... :oops:

There are slackers in any field, same as there are grafters.....maybe they are just hitting hard now to make the most of their batting average with a Govt that's in so much do-do's ? 8O
 
#16
Fook me good ol' Noddy's Underground Railway (NUR=National Union of Railwaymen, the precursor of the RMT.) seem to have stirred up a right old hornets nest here.
A few facts.
Most Train Drivers on the Underground are members of ASLEF, not the RMT.
A train driver is paid 30,000K a year as in an emergency he'd be responsible for all passengers on his train 1 man/woman to control 1,000 plus passengers (In rush hour) not so great when the powers off in the middle of summer. Take it from me abuse from that many people, because a signal has failed is not a box of fluffies.
RMT members are usually Station staff, signalmen (Or their equivalent now.), Train cleaners etc.

Before a person joins the Armed Forces they should, perhaps, show enough interest in their career to know the amount they will be paid (Recieve in the hand after all deductions.) and be aware of the type of pay increases that have been recieved in the past.
If the increases or conditions seem poor it's simple don't join. It's a volunteer force so the person joining has that choice and numerous other choices during and after training to leave.
To make emotive Daily Mail editorial like arguments comparing chalk and cheese as P_O did is way off the mark.
 
#17
Is that why you went to NZ ? I hope it's more peaceful there for you :) ......all in all, many of our key service providers are terribly neglected :cry: ....but PO does have a point about climate sensitivity.....if only EVERYONE would concede to that voluntarily, without things having to resort to a public shaming process (ie:MP's). :roll: :)
 
#18
Taloolah, Mind your own or have a skeg at my previous posts re why I left the UK.
I'm not such a delicate flower that being called a cnut by commuters would cause me to emigrate.

When MPs, Bankers and others, who should due to their education and position, show some restraint in accepting pay rises, bonuses and perks perhaps then would be a good time to lecture working people about negotiating pay and conditions.
 
#19
I don't agree that because one group of people are low paid, that everyone should be.

Good luck to the Underground staff, there is plenty of money in the kitty with the increased profits that are being made by the companies.
Too many companies are using this so called credit crunch to get rid of staff and hold down others pay.
 
#20
What seems to be being missed here, is that the original discussions were thrown into disarray, apparently on the night before the so-called strike, was because the RMT demanded that two sacked drivers were to be re-employed.
One was sacked for opening the doors on the wrong side of the train at Victoria and then lying about having done safety checks, and the other for theft.

What would Jack do if someone put your lives in danger, or stole something from you ?

£30-40k per year for a train controlled by a computer is not a bad wage is it ?
The laziest b'stards (and probably overpaid to boot) in LU are the station staff who appear to have nowt more to do than stand around in groups chatting amongst themselves - I see it every day when I travel.

As a final comment -- if majority of drivers are ASLEF, what the foxtrot has Bob Crow of the RMT got to do with it ? (and he does look like the photo that the media often print of him - a permananet sneer)>
 

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