Great Britain -- Our role as the worlds policeman

[slim]

Isn't it about time that our country stopped pretending that it is still the great power that it was when the empire existed.
Are we spending too much of our time and resources attempting to police the globe?
If the money spent on fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq was spent securing and protecting our borders and citizens would it be spent more effectively?
Would this money and our service personnel be used to better effect to combat drug importation, people trafficing and illegal immigration?

I don't know the answers and I think its fairly obvious that the politicians of all parties don't either.

Suggestions on a voting slip please.

 

[Streaky]

We're only there because of our politicians massive egos. They have delusions of being International Statesmen.

Delusions of adequacy, more like!

 

[jesse650]

That's part of the problem....isn't it?

Voting

Many people do not take the time to look at the parties and then make a choice based on what they see....

Too often do I hear the phrase "well, there's nothing to choose between them, so I don't think I'll vote"

WHAT??!!......ok, so it's your democratic choice whether you vote or not (fine!) however it is also your democratic right, honour and obligation to try and ensure the "right" people get voted into power to represent your feelings, your worries and concerns. These people, in positions of power, are there to serve US and it is down to us to make sure they do so.

on this day 11/11/06 it is well to remember that a vast number of people have died (not only military) to ensure we have the right of self determination.........it would be a disgrace not to use that power they have confered on us.

vote every time you get the chance. As the ad says every little helps

 

[hobbit]

The Great in Great Britain no longer applies when compared with GB's former position of power and influence when indeed it was the world's policeman. The pollies persist in behaving as if nothing has changed and so do many other leading figures. Instead of closing the doors and becoming a major producing country with all the skill and knowledge in the country the ridiculous belief that all is well is a prime example of the Emperor"s Clothes or whatever it is.
In this walt like atmosphere the country continues to dig itself into a hole and the parasites pour in to speed up the process of social and economic destruction. I have repeatedly expressed the belief that UK should pull out of all these groups such as the Commonwealth and become once again a power but in industry and science and so on.
I suspect it is too late now however and the leaders will continue to run the country into chaos while preparing an escape hole somewhere for themselves. Problem is too many young people are being sacrificed for these useless bastards and it will continue 'till the SHTF. These p****s are worse than SH I reckon as in addition to filling their pockets they are not doing anything to police their own country let alone the world.

:x

 

[Nutty]

Isn't it about time that our country stopped pretending that it is still the great power that it was when the empire existed.
Are we spending too much of our time and resources attempting to police the globe?
If the money spent on fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq was spent securing and protecting our borders and citizens would it be spent more effectively?
Would this money and our service personnel be used to better effect to combat drug importation, people trafficking and illegal immigration?

I don't know the answers and I think its fairly obvious that the politicians of all parties don't either.

Suggestions on a voting slip please.

We certainly do not want our service personnel involved in law enforcement within the UK or its borders. That is a quick route to dictatorship. All ready some surveillance units have moved into civilian law enforcement.

As for having squaddies with fixed bayonets pushing women and children back onto ferries or aircraft that would make good publicity and we both know it would never happen.

Where are we going to send these people back to. The other country has to first acknowledge they are their citizens and than state they are prepared to have them back. With vast amounts of hard currency be remitted to these countries it is hardly in their interest to do so.

Who is going to transport these people, you will not find an airline or shipping company who will take them unless they are guaranteed landing rights for the deportees. Even less chance if they are liable to be violent. The RAF can not even cope with moving troops between here and overseas deployments so they will not be in with a bid.

Why were the French so happy to see all the refugees disappearing down the channel tunnel. At least the English speaking one were going away just leaving them with a shed load of French speaking illegal immigrants. Spain is loaded with South American and Rumanian immigrants. Because they speak either Spanish or Rumanian a Latin based language close to Spanish which they can adapt tp rapidly.

As you said in your last line "I don't know the answers", perhaps your time would be better spent suggesting viable solutions than the standard "Scum" Newspapers scaremongering about a problem we all know exists.

But then perhaps its to hard for you to offer acceptable solultions, so like the French you just dump the problem on others ie. Politicians.

Disgusted of Tumbridge Wells

Nutty

PS We can stop drugs importation and crimes committed to obtain cash to support a drug habit tommorrow, just by making all drugs legal. Solution done simple. See its not hard is it.

 

[Shakey]

As for having squaddies with fixed bayonets pushing women and children back onto ferries or aircraft that would make good publicity and we both know it would never happen.

It would make good publicity. Might send out the signals that we aren't prepared to accept any more.

Remember a few years ago, women on the Dover ferry threatening to throw their infants overboard if they weren't let in? I'd have let them. Then tell them to b***er off back to France.

PS We can stop drugs importation and crimes committed to obtain cash to support a drug habit tommorrow, just by making all drugs legal. Solution done simple. See its not hard is it.

Marx said religion is the opium of the masses. I see you're proposing to make opium the opium of the masses. What an effective powerful tool of state control that would be - turn the troublesome chav population into junkies and withdraw the smack if they misbehave.

 

[slim]

Isn't it about time that our country stopped pretending that it is still the great power that it was when the empire existed.
Are we spending too much of our time and resources attempting to police the globe?
If the money spent on fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq was spent securing and protecting our borders and citizens would it be spent more effectively?
Would this money and our service personnel be used to better effect to combat drug importation, people trafficking and illegal immigration?

I don't know the answers and I think its fairly obvious that the politicians of all parties don't either.

Suggestions on a voting slip please.

We certainly do not want our service personnel involved in law enforcement within the UK or its borders. That is a quick route to dictatorship. All ready some surveillance units have moved into civilian law enforcement.

As for having squaddies with fixed bayonets pushing women and children back onto ferries or aircraft that would make good publicity and we both know it would never happen.

Where are we going to send these people back to. The other country has to first acknowledge they are their citizens and than state they are prepared to have them back. With vast amounts of hard currency be remitted to these countries it is hardly in their interest to do so.

Who is going to transport these people, you will not find an airline or shipping company who will take them unless they are guaranteed landing rights for the deportees. Even less chance if they are liable to be violent. The RAF can not even cope with moving troops between here and overseas deployments so they will not be in with a bid.

Why were the French so happy to see all the refugees disappearing down the channel tunnel. At least the English speaking one were going away just leaving them with a shed load of French speaking illegal immigrants. Spain is loaded with South American and Rumanian immigrants. Because they speak either Spanish or Rumanian a Latin based language close to Spanish which they can adapt tp rapidly.

As you said in your last line "I don't know the answers", perhaps your time would be better spent suggesting viable solutions than the standard "Scum" Newspapers scaremongering about a problem we all know exists.

But then perhaps its to hard for you to offer acceptable solultions, so like the French you just dump the problem on others ie. Politicians.

Disgusted of Tumbridge Wells

Nutty

PS We can stop drugs importation and crimes committed to obtain cash to support a drug habit tommorrow, just by making all drugs legal. Solution done simple. See its not hard is it.

As I stated I don't know the answers, do you?
Any answers that I have would be deemed non PC.
I could of course sell up here and move abroad to a country where PC correctness is non U. But I would then miss my kids & grandkids.

 

[davy_longshanks]

The UK is a nuclear power, with a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. We are the fourth largest economy in the world. We are a leading member of the EU, and the Queen is also Head of State for a number of other countries, too.

So, in actual fact, not only do we need to need to pull our weight, we have a responsibility to do so.

Only problem is, we don't spend enough money on the right kit and we waste too much money. Oh and ir*q. What a c**k up.

 

[slim]

The UK is a nuclear power, with a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. We are the fourth largest economy in the world. We are a leading member of the EU, and the Queen is also Head of State for a number of other countries, too.

So, in actual fact, not only do we need to need to pull our weight, we have a responsibility to do so.

Only problem is, we don't spend enough money on the right kit and we waste too much money. Oh and ir*q. What a c**k up.

The queen as head of state has no power.
Their are many nuclear powers including Israel
We are one of many permanent seat holders in the UN

Since when did any of the above or the fact that we are the forth largest economy in the world give us the right to become the worlds policeman?

 

[Streaky]

We are a leading member of the EU,



Hahahahahahahaha!

 

[dondon]

We are a leading member of the EU,



Hahahahahahahaha!

Brilliant , PMSL

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

Slim.

"The queen as head of state has no power". Well, finish it off. Her strength is the power she denies others.

"Their are many nuclear powers including Israel"; but we are only one of about 6 that have the ability to project that power intercontinentally.

"We are one of many permanent seat holders in the UN". Well, actually one of only 5.

"We are the forth largest economy in the world". Correct; and we won't keep that position by talking ourselves down from within all the time.

You denigrate the Commonwealth. It is a unique institution and we squander its potential. If only we had built on that as a Trading Bloc and the basis of a Union to give up sovereignty to and not, in the event, thrown in our lot with bunch of cultural foreigners with whom we share little, if any, commonality.

It is generally agreed that, for a Nation of our size, we persistently "punch above our weight", militarily, financially and culturally. Does a truly British person want to give that up and sink into, albeit affluent, obscurity like a bloody Schweizer? I would hope not. The responsibility it carries, though, is being a World policeman. Do not confuse that, though, with blindly following the USA into every exercise in megalomania. If you have Iraq and Afghanistan in mind; that wasn't policing. In each case it was the overthrow of a Sovereign Government, even if it was a particularly odious one.

 

[Skanza]

Heeey don't put us out of jobs now!

 

[Shakey]

Oi Skanza, I love the avatar of the kitten skinning up but better not let the Joss see it! :lol:

 

[Skanza]

Oi Skanza, I love the avatar of the kitten skinning up but better not let the Joss see it! :lol:

hehe... i have no idea what you mean because I'm a complete dumbarse.

but yea 8)

 

[dunkers]

Put simply Britain needs to decide whether it wants to be an ordinary member of Europe or a world power. Seemingly this government wants us to be the former but acts like the latter (without providing the armed forces with the funding it needs to do that job).

 

[Greenie]

Great Britain is no more

we are known as the UK worldwide.

 

[golden_rivet]

I think politicians have an inflated sense of our international importance. Must come with floating around in the 'mother of parliaments'. We have a fantastic history and have both in the past and now influenced history and played a crucial role internationally in all spheres of life ... thing is so has everyone else. I think the problem must be a result of seeing the world as a hierarchy rather than as an inter-connected whole.

I agree people don't participate politically enough. I'm sure that most politicians are aware that their silly behaviour plays a part in this. Unfettered capitalism, an uncaring and ill-educated population ... my god ... I sound like some sort of fundamentalist ...

 

[Passed-over_Loggie]

I think the Intelligencia value our World importance too low! I also think that it is out of "embarrassment" for what they perceive as our Colonial past and the national reluctance to comply with their socially conscious, multicultural and egalitarian view of Utopia. The World is hierarchical and is an extension of what people like David Attenborough has been showing us for years in our wildlife. It's Nature and, on the whole, has placed genus Homo Sapiens very well on the evolutionary scale.

The fundamental question is, as a Nation (the United Kingdom of Gt Britain and Northern Island, for those who have problems with Britain as a label), do we want to give up our hard won position near the top of the heap and grub around in the scraps left over by the remaining "Alpha Nations"? The socially aware may argue that we do very well in Trade and Finance and that we don't need to be a "Decider" and, even less, a "Provider" in the World power hierarchy. Well, do you want to take the risk and see how long our Trade and Finance position lasts without the fabric that originally placed us where we are?

It's hard to have this discussion in a Country grasped by the "chav" culture, the "I want it now" society and the "it's not my fault and somebody must pay for it" mind set. If we really want to honour the sacrifices made by our forebears, retain our pride and seriously want to be a force for good, we must accept the responsibilities that go with it. If that means being a significant part of the "World Police", so be it! If it means "riding shotgun" or being "sworn in Deputy Sheriff" for the Septics, well, that's another matter.

The Left Wingers and Liberals have been trying their hardest to "talk down" our Nation since before WW1. It must really grip them that we are still there, near the top. We must recognise where we truly are, the useful contribution we make and take seriously the alternative. How many fighting Units have you heard of that have engaged their opponent saying "we're not as good as we think we are", "this is going to cost us lots", "somebody might get hurt" and "whatever will people think of us". The flaw in my entire argument, though, is that we need Statesmen to govern us, not the headline seeking self-servers we've become accustomed to over recent years. This latter point has been mentioned in several of the earlier Posts.

 

[Always_a_Civvy]

Politics itself in very hierarchical with MPs competing for power and status in the political marketplace. Part of the process, in an increasingly less deferential society, is seen as accomodating the wishes of the Editors or Propritors of certain newspapers, most notable the Aussie owned Sun. This equation is balanced against the interests of the electorate in favour of the newspaper magnates and their opinions. It is partly this equation we must rebalance if we want statesmen and stateswomen who are willing to enter politics in the first place and once there, take a wider interest in matters. Another problem we would of course need to address is the power of the Whips and the Patronage of the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition, both of which tend to reward conformity and sanction independence of mind. Much of the latter sadly went out when MPs got paid salaries rather than live off private means.

Equally however if we are unhappy with the way things are we need to be proactive, not just moan from the sidelines. Small lobby groups achieve a great deal by painstaking and persistent campaigning and lobbying, building up a base of interested MPs and expoliting the media - spoon-feeding journalists - ie you do the work and make life easy for them. Politics is, after all, properly used, a tool: the art of the possible, not the veil of the impossible.

Think of Parliament as a wheel-spanner. Are you going to use it to make life easier or are you going to try using brute force and moan when the valves won't turn enabling the superheated steam to escape?