Govt flogs Navy courtmartial records for £20

Don't I remember something about any record of a conviction over X years old having to be removed from someone's S.239 under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (1974)?


So let's keep a tally. What has Labour made a complete mess of?

Foreign Policy
Home / Anti-Terrorist Policy
The Treasury
Information Management

Pretty impressive list! The most the Conservatives could do 10 years ago was a few adulterous relationships!
Quote "The information contained in the books is public knowledge and was readily available at the time and through the Royal Naval Historical Branch," a spokesman said. Unquote

If you go to any newspaper records office you will be able to find full transcripts of the courts martial conducted in their towns, complete with Names and addresses of the accused. Courts Martial's are open to the public as are other courts of the land.

Although I was not courtmartialed, I did get 28 days in DQ's, this is recorded on my service documents, and has not and can not lawfully be removed. You have to live with your past.

The volumes sold are freely available at the national records office.

If the information was not freely available I expect that someone would complain that the MOD Government were trying to hide or coverup information.

Welcome to the world of the freedom of information LIVE with it we will all have to.

[marq=down]edited for spelling


War Hero
Book Reviewer
The proceedings of any court are a public process and if people don't like their evil deeds becoming public knowledge they shouldn't transgress in the first place.

I do think it's a pity if the RN Museum wasn't offered first refusal though. I'd like to see the whole smash scanned and made available on line.

Also I do wonder what else was left behind at RNCG!
BillyNoMates said:
I'm open to offers:-

Do they come with the original compliments slip with the password written on it (it was inside the envelope they were sent in) ? ;)

Is the money going to you or a service charity?
Saw those at the Naval Historical Branch: merely contained the offenders name rank & ON, list of charges and sentence. You had to know they existed to get a look at them. The actual CM files were mostly destroyed as not being of sufficient importance, except those that had some historical significance - the IVESTON case was one of the last I saw up there. If anyone's interested, check the National Archive under ADM 156 and ADM 178 - some fascinating stuff there.
Jimmy_Green said:
It looks as if various government departments are becoming masters of incompetence. I wonder what other fuck-ups are waiting to be revealed.
Shed loads mate; the incompetence should warrant a new dictionary definition of the same.
I know of one department in which a female employee has taken up more than 500 hours of work time. Why? Because she considers her toilet paper inferior.
I kid you not!
Seaweed said:
The proceedings of any court are a public process and if people don't like their evil deeds becoming public knowledge they shouldn't transgress in the first place.

I do think it's a pity if the RN Museum wasn't offered first refusal though. I'd like to see the whole smash scanned and made available on line.

Also I do wonder what else was left behind at RNCG!
Evil deeds? Are you aware of the RN legal process; if not now then in years past.


War Hero
Book Reviewer
Court Martial Dit One:

In late 1969 Tiger visited Kiel. Two rather unsavoury Germans who had been down to pick up some skin complained to their police that they had been assaulted and robbed.

The first I heard of this was back in Portsmouth when I came off leave late one evening, to be told I would be Prisoner's Friend the next day to an AB (whom I did not know) who was to be CM'd in RNB on six counts of robbery with violence, less formally for the old game of rolling the queers. Far be it from me as a Sub Lt to argue with the Commander, but it was explained that the man's DO (a Lt Cdr) was on leave and his stand-in (another Lt Cdr) had gone sick and so .. there being no volunteers .. and anyway the solicitor would do everything,I just had a formal role. I consoled myself that there was an educational experience coming up.

So the trial took place and the AB was duly sent to Winchester gaol for a year and then to be discharged. I thought he was probably guilty but that the case had not been proved beyond reasonable doubt, but the Court who were obviously vastly senior and more experienced took the other view. I was at this stage out of it anyway, any appeal would be organised through the solicitor.

In retrospect I thought the solicitor, a man regularly hired by the RN for legal work, had been less than assiduous in trying to pick holes in the prosecution, of which I saw one but could not get him to proceed with it.

Some time later there was a news item that this solicitor had done away with himself after discovering he was about to be outed as a homo (homosexual acts being then illegal).


War Hero
Book Reviewer
CM Dit 2:

In late 1964, last night in Rio, the Jaunty of the London smuggled a local tart into his cabin. Unfortunately for him the DLC came on deck just in time to see a flash of a bright yellow frock disappear round a corner as she went below.

So we sailed across the South Atlantic with the Jaunty in close arrest in his cabin with the senior CPOs (how happy they were) taking turns as sentry outside his door (with career and home at stake the temptation for a long swim might .. ).

On arrival in Snoekie a CM was set up in the camp theatre at HMS Afrikander, our then shore base there. The Jaunty was on seven counts, the last of which and somewhat unanswerable was 'Having a woman in his bunk without reasonable excuse'.

I was detailed as Officer of the Court, whose main duty is (was?) to march in the prisoner. In addition it was belatedly realised that as the woman was black and the Jaunty was white the local press might spin this to our disadvantage. I was told to make sure this did not happen but how I was to order the local press about was not explained! In the event they didn't cover the story, much to my relief as our Captain was a bit in to human sacrifice.

I was briefed that prisoner and Friend would be in a caboosh behind the stage, stage left. Summoned, I duly marched in the length of the theatre, ice cream suit spotless, sword drawn, giving it the whole Whaley thing as I knew this annoyed my Captain - Short Report sword salute: Bring in the Prisoner! Aye, Aye Sir! Short Report part 2, dwellingapauseoftwomarchingpacesbetweeneachmovementastaughtbynumbers, to said caboosh.

It was empty.

Figuring there might be a matching one on the other side I strode across the stage behind the curtain, which had a void underneath so I could hardly do this silently, to find that I was right but that this cubby hole too was empty. Made my way back across the stage and back into the theatre and down between the aisles to the rear, feeling the eyes of the President and his Board boring into my spine. At this point the cherub on the main truck who looks after poor sailors figured he'd had enough fun and let me find my quarry who were in another caboose at the rear clustered round a teapot.

Sorted! Said cherub now intervened again as the steno that had been hired turned out to be Dutch Dutch instead of Jaapie Duitch and she couldn't follow the proceedings. So the whole lot was adjourned (and my travails forgotten, except later by my loving messmates) while the admiral's driver was sent to dig Mrs Flag Lt out of a supermarket and bring her to us to take the shorthand.

DLC gave evidence that the leg he saw in the MAA's bunk was 'not a hairy leg' (true) etc etc and the Jaunty dipped his rate all the way diown and was sent home presumably to Mrs Jaunty's rolling pin. He had no recollection of the event in question and had plainly been (and sometimes must have done his duty undetected) on alcoholic autopilot. Another good man completelyruined by drink of which I reckon I encountered at least one case a year during my service, officers, SRs and JRs indifferently. Good dits there too if it wasn't so sad.

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