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Gordon Brown Loses Nerve and Waffles

Seadog

War Hero
Moderator
After hosting Lady Thatcher at Downing Strasse 10 and ligging with HMAF personnel camel side you'd think the PM was gearing up for an election.
Along comes Cameron with a pledge to increase the inheritance tax threshold and gives a long speech without an autocue, raising his cred overnight, polls surge the Torie's favour. Brown's shortcast won't have an election on it now.

Telegraph

Cameron and the Tories still have a way to go though.
 

safewalrus

War Hero
Proved his real worth and ain't done his party any favours has he? as many thought LMF at it's best - 'no bottle'
 

dondon

MIA
The Parasite totally ballsed up the Pensions of millions of people in this country & got rid of a tidy amount of our gold reserves for a pittance , the pillock .
 

safewalrus

War Hero
Which is why he's going to hell in a handcart but not just yet - he has after all to demolish our so called democracy (shouldn't be too hard even for him!
 

finknottle

Banned
Bottled it! Ha, any Prime Minister with even a modicum of CDF will call an election when he thinks the chances of being returned to power are at there best, not when a bunch of lacklustre bandwagon riding oppositonists want him to, good call Gordon. :thumright:
 

Jimmy_Green

War Hero
safewalrus said:
Which is why he's going to hell in a handcart but not just yet - he has after all to demolish our so called democracy (shouldn't be too hard even for him!

He's also yet to finish disassembling the armed forces.
 

finknottle

Banned
Jimmy_Green said:
safewalrus said:
Which is why he's going to hell in a handcart but not just yet - he has after all to demolish our so called democracy (shouldn't be too hard even for him!

He's also yet to finish disassembling the armed forces.

Is he doing that then Jimmy?
 

Jimmy_Green

War Hero
I think so. Slowly but surely. You might not have noticed shipmate, but reference aplenty has been made to cutbacks in the armed forces. As Broon and Bliar have been the dominant people in British politics over the last ten years, it's fair to say that they should shoulder much of the blame. You can't blame the cutbacks on that little old lady in the local bingo hall now, can you? And let's face it, the armed forces aren't exactly expanding in either material or manpower.
 

finknottle

Banned
I'll give you that where manpower is concerned and IMO one of the contributory factors is that Mummy does not want little Tommy to end up in Afghanistan or Iraq and who can blame them?

On the equipment front are there not 2 new carriers to be built? As for equipment for our troops on the front line I hear from the horse’s mouth that they are not left short, new Viking vehicles, new grenade launcher.
 
Well the entire Sandowns are due to be decommisioned, leaving the older Hunts. (Serving Hunt Matelot just this weekend.)

With one hand Gordon gives, with an even bigger hand he takes.

Why would you want to join the forces today, they are treated poorly and not respected for the job that they do, they are not given the tools to do the job, and when it goes wrong it is they who is blamed, the Head Shed sit in their £1000 chairs and refuses to take the blame for their mistake, (Iran Captives).

The Labour Party is not to be trusted with our Armed Forces, at a time when the world looks to be getting even more dangerous, Labour cutback the forces to unsustainable levels.
 

finknottle

Banned
Potential_Officer said:
Well the entire Sandowns are due to be decommisioned, leaving the older Hunts. (Serving Hunt Matelot just this weekend.)

With one hand Gordon gives, with an even bigger hand he takes.

Why would you want to join the forces today, they are treated poorly and not respected for the job that they do, they are not given the tools to do the job, and when it goes wrong it is they who is blamed, the Head Shed sit in their £1000 chairs and refuses to take the blame for their mistake, (Iran Captives).

The Labour Party is not to be trusted with our Armed Forces, at a time when the world looks to be getting even more dangerous, Labour cutback the forces to unsustainable levels.



It is my opinion that your statement highlighted is complete nonsense.
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
finknottle said:
I'll give you that where manpower is concerned and IMO one of the contributory factors is that Mummy does not want little Tommy to end up in Afghanistan or Iraq and who can blame them?

On the equipment front are there not 2 new carriers to be built? As for equipment for our troops on the front line I hear from the horse’s mouth that they are not left short, new Viking vehicles, new grenade launcher.

Still no actual contracts signed for the build (some equipment, yes), the ATVP are over 5 yrs old already and WIMIKs aren't exactly breaking the bank.

Try asking why the surface fleet is still shrinking despite the increasingly desperate attempts to extend the T23 to almost twice their design life?

Try asking why Exeter has pretty much only been round the IoW in the last year (I know her crew have been much further, but thats not the point).

Try asking why the f/w WAFU are stuck in Cambridgeshire or Kandahar with a limited number of aircraft and bodies to support them, when we're supposed to be ramping up to F35.

Try asking why even a "simple" tanker acquisition programme has been delayed so long that MOD can't buy a build slot even if it wanted to.

Try asking why Percy has had to stomach major reorganisation (and reduction) of the infantry and yet is still being asked to do two TELIC / HERRICK tours every 24 months or less with what can only be described as patchy at best care in the event he returns mentally or physically hurt.

Ask Perce why his comms still aren't fixed, the future armoured vehicle programmes are in disarray and why his new tube artillery programme has just been sh1tcanned. Ask him why there are never enough helos to lift him around sand-pits (then ask CHF and the crabs - same answer).

Try asking why the crabs are leaving in droves despite a shiny new jet (clue - it's the plethora of old a/c they have to soldier on with and the decimation of their AE support).

Ask why established, well-proven methods of providing training and support are being thrown away. Ask why even the most dedicated and hard-working do a tour in MB or in ABW and come away forever changed and deeply frustrated at the inability of the Treasury to understand that fighting two wars and recapitalising entire force structures can't be achieved by spinning it. The only agreement I would ever give Lewis Page is that the Procurement system is f8cked up - his theories on how and why ignore most realities.

I haven't even mentioned JPA, PAYD or families quarters..........

Gordon and the legions of political implants in MOD MB are always trumpeting higher budgets, greatest sustained investments, blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is most of the (quite small) investment is swallowed up supporting niff-naff & trivia to keep the CRE or some other bloody quango happy. They seem perfectly content to fight two wars on a shoestring and far worse destroy the morale, serving personnel and infrastructure of HMAF in the process. If thats not disassembling, I don't know what is.
 

lsadirty

War Hero
The statement is TRUE: who took the last carrier out of service and cancelled it's replacement ? This left us without a seaborne AEW capability, which showed up badly in the Falklands, or am I wrong ? Think back to the Labour Government in the late 70s - Jack was leaving in droves, most of them people that the Pusser could ill afford to lose - 3 of our nuclear COOWs left from one boat, taking years of experience with them. Labour and defence ? The 2 words aren't compatible to me, because few have ever served, and don't want to learn.
 
finknottle said:
Potential_Officer said:
Well the entire Sandowns are due to be decommisioned, leaving the older Hunts. (Serving Hunt Matelot just this weekend.)

With one hand Gordon gives, with an even bigger hand he takes.

Why would you want to join the forces today, they are treated poorly and not respected for the job that they do, they are not given the tools to do the job, and when it goes wrong it is they who is blamed, the Head Shed sit in their £1000 chairs and refuses to take the blame for their mistake, (Iran Captives).

The Labour Party is not to be trusted with our Armed Forces, at a time when the world looks to be getting even more dangerous, Labour cutback the forces to unsustainable levels.



It is my opinion that your statement highlighted is complete nonsense.

Its my opinion that in 'peacetime' no government can be trusted with the
armed forces. However under the Conservative's term of office we had a better Army.Navy and Air Force.

Also I doubt wether we would have been involved in the Iraq/Afghanistan
conflicts if the Tories had been in power.

:nemo: :nemo:
 

stumpy

War Hero
Hang on, I am no defender of New Labour, but the Tories under Maggie and Nott were about to decimate the RN if it hadn't been for the Argies.

I am not sure if any party can be trusted on defence, come on Tories, this is one area you can really stand out from New Labour!

But I do feel sorry for Brown if he has lost his waffles!
 
The Defence White Paper of '81 stated that ships would be spending more time alongside.

There was no money for fuel.
 
finknottle said:
Potential_Officer said:
Well the entire Sandowns are due to be decommisioned, leaving the older Hunts. (Serving Hunt Matelot just this weekend.)

With one hand Gordon gives, with an even bigger hand he takes.

Why would you want to join the forces today, they are treated poorly and not respected for the job that they do, they are not given the tools to do the job, and when it goes wrong it is they who is blamed, the Head Shed sit in their £1000 chairs and refuses to take the blame for their mistake, (Iran Captives).

The Labour Party is not to be trusted with our Armed Forces, at a time when the world looks to be getting even more dangerous, Labour cutback the forces to unsustainable levels.



It is my opinion that your statement highlighted is complete nonsense.

Labour has always talked a good talk about the services, but their actions will always speak louder than their words, Wilson was the first PM of modern times to reduce our servicement to live on state hand outs rather than decent pay, and Blair/Brown have brought our services to their very knees with increasing committments without sensible funding to match the tempo of service
 
Agreed. Most of us of a certain age will remember that parasite Nott and his plans to cut Defence. After all, it was on his watch that the decision was taken to remove Endurance, which gave Galtieri the green light to invade.

Pollies of all persuasions are just as bad as each other when it comes to managing most things, but when they get the kind of help they've had from their senior uniformed advisers over the last few years, it does little to foster confidence.
 
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
Agreed. Most of us of a certain age will remember that parasite Nott and his plans to cut Defence. After all, it was on his watch that the decision was taken to remove Endurance, which gave Galtieri the green light to invade.

Pollies of all persuasions are just as bad as each other when it comes to managing most things, but when they get the kind of help they've had from their senior uniformed advisers over the last few years, it does little to foster confidence.

Equally after that they did think things out a bit better and did spend serious money on the forces. After all it was Maggies support for Ronnie Raygun that helped push the Evil Empire over the edge. Equally it wasMaggie that initiated the changes that brought the UK defence industry out of the dark ages into the 20th C, my big fear now is that Mr Brown will consignus back into the dark ages, something which will takle a long time to recover from as once the skills are lost it is difficult and expensive to re-aquirethem.
 

Mayo3891

Midshipman
There both as bad as each other, labour? rubbish. I actually know people who voted BNP cos 'theres no one there for the working man anymore'. THis is a very sad state of affairs. Voting BNP is never excusable but where are Labour of old?? both dont care that much about the public just about out doing the other an making money!! Tawts!!
 
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