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Good News - CVF 'ordered'

PartTimer

War Hero
Appears that 2 CVF have been ordered - though a rather odd choice of words - but note the bold!!

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.12810/changeNav/6568

The Ministry of Defence today gave industry the green light that it was ready to go-ahead with contract signature for the two new super aircraft carriers. Industry is now expected to press ahead with forming the joint venture company that will help build the carriers.

The carriers, to be named HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, will be the biggest and most powerful surface warships ever constructed in the UK. Once they enter service in 2014 and 2016 respectively they are expected to remain in the fleet for up to fifty years.

Secretary of State for Defence, Des Browne said:
“The two aircraft carriers will provide our front line forces with the modern, world-class capabilities they will need over the coming decades. They will support peace-keeping and conflict prevention as well as our strategic operational priorities.

“This is an important day for the project and I am delighted that we are moving closer to signing the contracts for the manufacture of the carriers.â€

Minister for Defence Equipment and Support, Baroness Taylor, said:
“Today’s confirmation that we are proceeding with the two aircraft carriers underlines our commitment to both the Royal Navy and to the UK shipbuilding industry. We are investing about £14bn in the Navy and in the maritime industry over the next ten to fifteen years. The future carriers will provide an important military capability and will sustain many jobs - around 10,000 at the peak of production.â€

First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band said:
“I am of course delighted with today’s news which, when the Joint Venture is formed, will enable the Ministry of Defence and industry to sign the contract for the two new aircraft carriers. These ships with their aircraft will transform the UK’s defence capabilities when they enter service, delivering air power in support of the full range of future operations at sea, in the air and on land.â€
 
At least this seems to confirm part of last week's report in the FT (link). If the second part is true, we should see something more substantial in June.

Ministers are this weekend preparing to give the go-ahead to two new aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy, ending months of speculation that the flagship programme could be delayed for up to two years.

The Ministry of Defence is expected formally to commit next week, people close to the £4bn ($7.8bn) carrier programme confirmed. Executives at BAE Systems and VT Group, the two largest companies in the alliance that will build the carriers, will be told privately they can expect to receive a contract by the middle of next month. A public announcement of the contract will, however, not take place until that time.
 

Oil_Slick

War Hero
And MoD STILL haven't decided wether to go with Dave B or Dave C to fly off these things… You would think they would clear up that rather substantial issue first before they go buying the war canoes.
 

dunkers

War Hero
So how long has the procurement process for the new carriers taken? Something like 10 years from deciding we need new carriers to ordering them? Plus a further 10 years until they are in service...
 

21_Man

War Hero
dunkers said:
So how long has the procurement process for the new carriers taken? Something like 10 years from deciding we need new carriers to ordering them? Plus a further 10 years until they are in service...


.....and many years before that
 

Not_a_boffin

War Hero
Staff target 1997. No SR(S) as it became a "smart" procurement (ho f8cking ho!). To be honest, most of the six years or so since the initial large designs came out in 2002-ish has been compensating for the failure to update costings from the initial concept costs developed in 1998 or so for a "40000 tonner". Had they done that, much of the last six years trying to shave costs to fit could have been avoided.

That said as O_S points out, they would probably have faffed about debating the a/c decision just as long.

Looks like a letter of intent to proceed, which lets the JV stand up, which in turn gives the MoD an organisation to contract with. Promising, if not definitive.
 
Perhaps they, thecurrent Goverment, want to push it as far as they can without actually signing then pass it over to the incoming (Tories) to carry the financial can while still protecting jobs in Labour seats. I think they have little interest in the efficiency of the RN.

Cynical of Tumwells Bridge.
 
However I feel CVF will proceed, question is, will two ships get built? Could we be reduced to one? People will cry out that we cannot operate without two carriers! But has that stopped past governments in cutting the fleet?

Just seen a rather amusing advert at the bottom of the page:

Royal Navy Ships
Fantastic low prices here. Find
a bargain on eBay.co.uk
www.ebay.co.uk
 

persona_non_grata

Lantern Swinger
21_Man said:
dunkers said:
So how long has the procurement process for the new carriers taken? Something like 10 years from deciding we need new carriers to ordering them? Plus a further 10 years until they are in service...


.....and many years before that

Ever since CVA-01 got cancelled y'think?
Actually.... considering that they spec for the two do you reckon they've just been updating and modernising the old CVA-01 plans for the last 40 and a bit years?
 

SELJUK

War Hero
IF they are going to name the first ship HMS Queen Elizabeth The Second surely the sycophants and hangers on won't dare it to cancel it.....what and see all their Knighthoods go up in smoke.
Now if they were to clag on a nuclear reactor to the propulsion system then we might have something worthwhile putting to sea...The bean counters will go for the cheapo version of course and our lads and lasses will have a complete pigs ear to take to sea and operate. Hamstrung from the start!
 

PartTimer

War Hero
SELJUK said:
IF they are going to name the first ship HMS Queen Elizabeth The Second surely the sycophants and hangers on won't dare it to cancel it.....what and see all their Knighthoods go up in smoke.
Now if they were to clag on a nuclear reactor to the propulsion system then we might have something worthwhile putting to sea...The bean counters will go for the cheapo version of course and our lads and lasses will have a complete pigs ear to take to sea and operate. Hamstrung from the start!

Except they aren't - it's going to be HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH, the last one being this little beauty...



As for nuclear propulsion, it was investigated and rejected. While we have experience with naval nuclear reactors they are all comparatively small anmd surrounded by lots of nice cold water. The French have had many problems trying to transfer submarine reactors into a surface platform and have decided to go with conventional propulsion for their second CV. We have lots and lots of experience dealing with Gas Turbines, making it a lot simpler to operate rather than more complex.
 

Old_Hand

Lantern Swinger
An item in The Times might be of interest regarding these carriers. Appears they might be joint ownership with the French?.

www.timesonline.co.uk/...953901.ece
 
PartTimer said:
Appears that 2 CVF have been ordered - though a rather odd choice of words - but note the bold!!

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.12810/changeNav/6568

The Ministry of Defence today gave industry the green light that it was ready to go-ahead with contract signature for the two new super aircraft carriers. Industry is now expected to press ahead with forming the joint venture company that will help build the carriers.

The carriers, to be named HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales, will be the biggest and most powerful surface warships ever constructed in the UK. Once they enter service in 2014 and 2016 respectively they are expected to remain in the fleet for up to fifty years.

Secretary of State for Defence, Des Browne said:
“The two aircraft carriers will provide our front line forces with the modern, world-class capabilities they will need over the coming decades. They will support peace-keeping and conflict prevention as well as our strategic operational priorities.

“This is an important day for the project and I am delighted that we are moving closer to signing the contracts for the manufacture of the carriers.â€

Minister for Defence Equipment and Support, Baroness Taylor, said:
“Today’s confirmation that we are proceeding with the two aircraft carriers underlines our commitment to both the Royal Navy and to the UK shipbuilding industry. We are investing about £14bn in the Navy and in the maritime industry over the next ten to fifteen years. The future carriers will provide an important military capability and will sustain many jobs - around 10,000 at the peak of production.â€

First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band said:
“I am of course delighted with today’s news which, when the Joint Venture is formed, will enable the Ministry of Defence and industry to sign the contract for the two new aircraft carriers. These ships with their aircraft will transform the UK’s defence capabilities when they enter service, delivering air power in support of the full range of future operations at sea, in the air and on land.â€
Sadly, It's merely to keep ship-builders in work assuming they vote Labour. The ships will be too expensive to put to sea and impossible to deploy many miles east of our shores with no re-fuelling the other side of Gibraltar .
They will be placed in reserve for disposal within a year or so of them being built, I predict.
 

Squeezable

Midshipman
But only one carrier between 2011-2015 you think that they would have learnt their lesson in the falklands about needing an air defence capability and the Harrier GR 7/9 does not offer that with no radar, it can only carry two advanced short range air to air missiles for stictly visual launch goodbye being able to lauch an adequante task force ever again
 
But with the advent of the new aircraft, when they sort it out, there won`t be any harriers by then, or will there?
 

scouse

War Hero
Squeezable said:
But only one carrier between 2011-2015 you think that they would have learnt their lesson in the falklands about needing an air defence capability and the Harrier GR 7/9 does not offer that with no radar, it can only carry two advanced short range air to air missiles for stictly visual launch goodbye being able to lauch an adequante task force ever again
think AWAC s / E2C /F35 and 6 months training for air and ground crew in Pensicola :thumright: I wish!! :angel11: but highly unlikely
 
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