Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wrong?

Discussion in 'Royal Naval Reserve (RNR)' started by Purple_twiglet, Feb 27, 2008.

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  1. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    Word has reached me, through a number of sources, of the antics of an RNR officer in another unit to my own, which I consider to be somewhat disturbing. Allegedly this officer has discovered a ‘loophole’ in the system, which allows him to deploy on an RFA somewhere hot and sunny for 4 weeks. Once this is done, as the deployment was covered under Op VERITAS, he is apparently entitled to claim the Afghanistan medal.

    By all accounts the individual concerned is allegedly a bit of a medal hunter and BR Fiend (he is allegedly looking forward to the Queen dying so he can get a Coronation medal), and is very concerned with having as much tin as possible on his chest. He is conspicuous by his failure to deploy though, despite his parent branch apparently being desperate for volunteers for mobilisation.

    Am I alone in finding this behaviour to be absolutely reprehensible? I have no problem with regular RN personnel being deployed in a JOA for a qualifying period of time and claiming the medal. I have no problem with personnel being deployed in Bahrain claiming medals on the grounds that they were deployed and supporting operations. I know that during OP TELIC many UK based personnel were entitled to claim the TELIC medal as they supported the war effort. Most did not, feeling that it was very bad taste to claim a war fighting medal when you were sitting in London. I do have a serious problem with a reservist deliberately setting out to find the easiest way to get 4 weeks qualifying time in order to win an operational medal. He gives us fellow reservists a very bad name indeed.

    Lets not forget that while this individual will be running racetracks on a hot sunny ocean somewhere, doing very little of operational value (if anything) and in absolutely no danger whatsoever, he will be legally allowed to wear the same medal as those young soldiers who spend 6 months in Afghanistan, quite literally fighting for their lives and often returning home badly wounded and scarred for life from their experiences.

    Its one thing to be a regular and deployed somewhere, or to be a reservist and mobilised. But to intentionally find out how you can get a jolly and a medal, and then brag about it to your peers (the majority of whom have done operational tours and who hold the medals for real) is at the very least bad taste, and, (in my opinion only), at worst behaviour which could suggest that the individual is unfit to hold the Queens Commission.

    Why am I posting this? Well firstly I’d like to know if I’m alone in feeling very, very angry about this individuals actions? Secondly, I’d like to think that the individual concerned, or one of his acquaintances, may read this and possibly ponder on their actions. While what they are doing is legally correct, I think that their actions are morally dubious.

    In my opinion only, the individual concerned seems to have lost sight of the fact that the RNR exists today to go to dangerous places, along with our regular peers and provide support to the war fighter. It does not exist as a means for him to get lots of shiny pieces of tin to support his ego while young men and women (including plenty of RNR) are fighting and dying in Afghanistan.

    I’d welcome any thoughts that you may have.
  2. Who says he wont be in danger and who says he wont be doing anything. There is no one on ships who does not have a compulsory job and wont be just sunning himself on deck while the others run the ship.

    Nowt wrong with wanting a gong or two.

    Are we perhaps a little jealous?
  3. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    Afghan medal -----------on an RFA.

    Afghanistan is landlocked ------ miles from the sea --so how come ?

    :nemo: :nemo:
  4. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    The OSM Afgan medal is issued with and without clasp. HM armed forces personnel who serve on land in Afganistan receive the OSM WITH CLASP.

    RN and RFA who are logistic support from the sea are issued with the OSM and NO CLASP. Read here:

    ''Service of varying lengths depending on the operation on Ops Landman, Veritas, Oracle, Ramson or Damien in OTHER MIDDLE EAST COUNTRIES during certain specific dates will qualify for the OSM for Afghanistan without clasp.' http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/OsmAfghanistan.htm
  5. For goodness sake calm down, campaign medals are issued that way, always have been, some who get them are at the front end in danger every day and some are right at the back and crossing the high street at home would be more dangerous. That is just the way it is, because he organised himself to be in theatre for the qualifying time does that make all that much difference, he meets the requirements set down. You may suggest that the requirements are wrong, and you may be right, but that is another argument.
  6. We could of course change the medal to make it for ardous or front line under fire only medal. But then all the Senior Officers would not get one so thats the end of that good idea.

    Or make it badges or brooches for being there and medals for heroes.
  7. Have you seen Princ Phillip, Or Charles, Chest???
    Full of gongs they are..... Wonder how they came to get them....
    And as for prince Edward "failed Marine training" WTF is he getting gongs for?
  8. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    Not jealousy, I've got my own medals! Its anger that he is so blatantly screwing the system to get a medal and yet not deploying, when his branch is apparently desperate for volunteers to go somewhere and do their job for real. The idea of someone swanning round with an op tour medal, that they didn't earn, that they got solely for doing a jolly and which they will doubtless brag about has really upset me. If he wants a medal that badly, why isn't he volunteering to deploy? If he's got time for a jolly, he has time for a deployment.
  9. They use ebay.
  10. They are DECORATIONS they decorate your uniform, you can get them in all sorts of ways, some mothods are virtuous involving bravery and commitment, some are the opposite involving backhanders, some are like this one just for being there for so many days, some are for knowing the right people, or getting promoted enough.

    However he organised it he will meet the criteria for issue, that's life, live with it. Equally I am sure he is not being allowed to go because he wants a medal, but because the deployment meets the required criteria.

    He may well be a prat and a bit of a walt, but is it really worth getting all upset about just ignore the prat.

    ps all I got for my service was a veterans badge and I couldnt care less.
  11. Purple_twiglet

    Purple_twiglet War Hero Moderator

    Apparently its not a deployment its some kind of ORT, and allegedly not related to his parent branch training requirements - more of a "body fills the slot" type arrangement.
  12. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    PT, I wonder if it is anything to do with this exit of servicemmen from UM Armed forces last year they will take anyone even for a month.

    "A WORRYING 20,340 servicemen left the Armed Forces last year — in the biggest exodus in modern times."


    Would the MOD take me if I volunteered to go to Iraq for a month as a [email protected] house dodger in that Airfield outside Basra, so I could claim the "Iraq Reconstruction Service Medal". Then after a months leave go to the same RFA ship this RNR officer is joining as his flunkey just to claim the OSM Afgan medal.

    Two gongs for two months service sounds ok to me. But I doubt if they would take an old veteran in his 70's. Like Maxi 77 I did 12 in the RN back in the 50's 60's and all I have to wear is a UK Armed Forces veterans badge.
  13. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    I could come along too to supervise you. Mind you I might have to loose some weight to be able to get into my uniform
  14. The rules are the rules I guess. Sometimes people work them and to some degree I am inclined to think more power to them. As has been correctly pointed out earlier, he won't get the clasp. Consider this, he's at a mess dinner chatting to some booty/pongo type (or even a matelot with a clasp ;) ) who asks... "where were you on Herrick?" Who's going to look like a d1ckhead then :)
  15. What's the problem?? this is how, as has been stated, alot of medals have been issued. THE GSM Northern Ireland was not straight days served. A pongo deployed for 6 months got the same medal for someone for popped across for a weeks time as long as they accumalted 28 days somehow. (think it was 28, old age creeping in) First Gulf war Ark Royal and personnel in Cyprus got Gulf war medal. That person did not make the rules on qualification up the MoD has. If he knows the rules and gets medal so be it. Get over it . Uhmmmmm let me think 4 weeks RFA or 4 weeks Helmand province. Know were i would choose!! thats right ............... neither Antigua sounds better
  16. Just wonder what an old acquaintance of mine, who has recently returned home from Afghanistan, minus two legs, would make of it? What did this Royal get for his pains? An infection requiring more leg to be removed.

    They are the rules I suppose, but at the end of the day, he will have to justify himself one day to someone who really was there.
  17. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    This isn't just a RNR thing, In the regular navy there are plenty of officers popping out to Kandahar for certain meetings advising etc. No optag etc just a quick 518 refresher and see you in 30 days. I know i work with LT/Lt cdr who have just done that. So it happens!! They obviously need to justify there existence to someone :w00t:. The rest of know the real heroes :thumright:
  18. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    My brother flies in and out of these sandy places to maintain the Army's medical kit. Last time we spoke he was saying he wasn't going to apply for the medals as he would feel a bit of a fraud.

    Might change if one of his trips gets a bit hairy I suppose.
  19. I have a suspicion your aquaintance would say 'so what' that's the way it goes with campaign medals always has and probably always will. All a campaign medal says is you were in the qualifying area for at least the qualifying time, nothing more nothing less. Campaign medals have nothing to do with bravery, being fired at, blown up or anything like that, for the teal heros they do other medals, now they do mean something.

    Mind you wouldn't it be ever so slighly amusing if the ship got diverted out of the qualifying area a couple of days before the qualifying time was up, all that planning and organising gone to waste.
  20. Re: Going on an RFA jolly to claim Afghan medal - morally wr

    Hand to hand 'combat' with his mangun

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