Get yer 'at ( politically incorrect)

hobbit

War Hero
No doubt I will be corrected or confirmed but I understand from a somewhat dodgy newspaper the RN has a new admiral of a type unknown to me during my twelve. Berets came into being after my time, why not tams,( short for tam-o-shanter is it ) from Bonnie Scotland instead of the frog butcher's beret? Anyway will turbans become the rig in the near future and if so " off caps " should be interesting.
Spare crew FAETD
:D :D :D
 

Father_Famine

Lantern Swinger
hobbit said:
No doubt I will be corrected or confirmed but I understand from a somewhat dodgy newspaper the RN has a new admiral of a type unknown to me during my twelve. Berets came into being after my time, why not tams,( short for tam-o-shanter is it ) from Bonnie Scotland instead of the frog butcher's beret? Anyway will turbans become the rig in the near future and if so " off caps " should be interesting.
Spare crew FAETD
:D :D :D

Joined up in '72 with a lad who wore a turban, and I'm sure before I left in '95 there was an officer who wore one.
 

Ticklertin

Midshipman
Rear Admiral Amjad Hussain joined my ship in 77 when we were midshipmans training ship. I was the seaboats cox'n and he was a pleasure to instruct. No side, no bunroom snobbishness, just a willingness to listen and learn. Made a pleasant change.

:wink:
 

hobbit

War Hero
Ticklertin said:
Rear Admiral Amjad Hussain joined my ship in 77 when we were midshipmans training ship. I was the seaboats cox'n and he was a pleasure to instruct. No side, no bunroom snobbishness, just a willingness to listen and learn. Made a pleasant change.

:wink:

Just for those confused I was referring to a newspaper comment regarding the promotion of a pakistani officer to admiral in the RN. The dodgy newspaper being the Overseas Express which seems to report a lot of negative stuff although some good news occasionally. Anyway while accepting the above quote my point is that I would have found it difficult to accept orders from a non-English person ( in the RN ) the same as I have problems with foreign doctors, lawyers and teachers. We are culturally different with sometimes widely diverse beliefs and practices and as a firm non-believer in multi-culturalism I believe it is important to retain a national identity, where all speak the same language and in general share a common way of life. Maybe this is wrong and not PC but as one who was in the mob 1952 - 1964 I find some of the changes a bit too much and when considering how long it takes to develop and form a culture chaos must reign when a number of cultures struggle for dominance in one environment. Not intentionally racist but a belief that life is easier with one set of rules and values and I liked the UK standards and way of life,

:D :D :D
 

hammockhead

Lantern Swinger
Well, we had English officers leading Indians and Pakistanis for hundreds of years, so it's about time the favour was returned.
 

the_matelot

War Hero
Moderator
hobbit said:
my point is that I would have found it difficult to accept orders from a non-English person ( in the RN )(MOD Comment-Does this also refer to Irish/Scottish/Welsh?) the same as I have problems with foreign doctors, lawyers and teachers. We are culturally different with sometimes widely diverse beliefs and practices and as a firm non-believer in multi-culturalism I believe it is important to retain a national identity, where all speak the same language and in general share a common way of life. Maybe this is wrong and not PC but as one who was in the mob 1952 - 1964 I find some of the changes a bit too much and when considering how long it takes to develop and form a culture chaos must reign when a number of cultures struggle for dominance in one environment. Not intentionally racist but a belief that life is easier with one set of rules and values and I liked the UK standards and way of life

Hobbit,

I am glad you left when you left because you are nothing but a narrow minded individual with those views....

I would use stronger language than that but I'm not going to lower myself in this case.

You should be ashamed of yourself. The RN has always been proud of the fact that it employed the best person for the job irrespective of background.
 

hobbit

War Hero
An interesting and predictable response from one who has a different view of the way the world and UK is going. I merely stated my view but clearly that is not acceptable in all areas. I too will not lower my standards as I have no wish for any aggressive style of contact. I do suspect however that I am not alone with this point of view and although I have not visited the old country for some years it seems all is not going smoothly.
During my time in the RN and UK I felt safe walking the streets and in fact anywhere . Not so now I understand from what I read and the comments I see on other websites. That being so the main thing is that you are happy with the way things are. When I was on the move to foreign places I always felt so much pleasure returning home to familiar faces and voices in the local on the streets or wherever. I suspect I would not recognise the place now and certainly would find a different RN.Oh! and I am not ashamed of anything I stated and still hold the view that we can make comment in a democratic environment. Freedom of speech it is called and if my words are properly understood they make sense I believe. Not to worry, it'll all come out in the wash,
:D :D :D
 

the_matelot

War Hero
Moderator
I am certainly not going to disagree with you over some points of multiculturism that I find particularly difficult to swallow also (and I think we both know what they are...)

What I do find offensive is your comment as follows
my point is that I would have found it difficult to accept orders from a non-English person (in the RN)
.

Why? As Hammockhead quite correctly stated, the British Empire has been doing it for hundreds of years.

I am not English. I am Irish. Does that mean if I gave you an order, you would refuse to carry it out?

Are you a person who would struggle to obey an order from a female officer as well?

If so, there is no place for you in the RN. I couldn't give a monkeys if the person who told me to do something was purple with yellow polkadots as long as that order was legitimate and the person giving it was fit to lead.

I know where you are currently residing and it seems to me that some of their attitudes (some very right and some appalling wrong) has rubbed off on you....

RAdm Hussain RN got to where he is now by hard work and aptitude. No-one gets to 2* level simply on skin colour alone you racist [email protected] Give him the respect he rightly deserves and has earnt.
 
hobbit said:
.......life is easier with one set of rules and values and I liked the UK standards and way of life...

Life might be easier for some but not for others. Britain has historically welcomed people from different countries and cultures and we have gained more than we have lost by doing so. Monocultural, univalue, societies, which might appear superficially attractive, are also prone to lack innovation in culture and other areas of national life, as pre-democratic Spain and pre-Garibaldi Italy demonstrate.

On the second issue, as Hammockhead and The Matelot have rightly pointed out, why is it acceptable for the English to accept orders from their own but not from others whilst at the same time having no misgivings about giving orders to non-Englishmen under their control?

I remember as recently as the late 1980s senior officers in the RN and Army arguing against promoting Britons who were from the ethnic minorities on the grounds that those under their command would not like taking orders from them & that it would undermine service morale. They put the same argument forward a few years later to oppose attempts to stop the practice of kicking gays out.

Personally I would rather take orders off an officer like Rear Admiral Hussain than from any of the English officers who tried to justify their personal prejudices by reference to alleged disintegration of discipline and morale. These prejudices meant that when the RNXS was disbanded in 1994 and I was invited to transfer into the RNR for NCS duties (my specialisation) I had to decline as I didn't want to risk being found-out and dishonourably discharged later, simply because I was gay. And Hobbit, as a gay man I surely should have a good reason to feel anxious about serving under a Muslim Admiral? :evil:
 
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