Geeky Question

clanky

War Hero
Can anyone tell me how possible it would be to have a welfare wireless network fitted to a ship whilst it was alongside during a deployment? I'm talking about a completely unrestricted stand alone network, reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy. How is this issue covered in commercial liners etc? This may seem like a bone question, but I'm interested in getting the full story on this issue. The WE's I know all tend to po-poo this idea, but I'm interested in brainstorming this concept in a wider forum. Any comments (within the confines of OPSEC obviously)









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safewalrus

War Hero
When I were a lad.......Ships had something called an SRE, some bloody greeny playing rubbish records over a broad cast system and boring the sock off everybody! OK it wasn't wireless but it did what you were looking for - how come it's still not in use?
 
As far as I know. If you looking for how you would set one up on a ship, you would need internet access via satellite (so that you could get it anywhere in the world). Then to allow the ship’s coy to gain access you would need wireless transmitters (and lots of them) because a single transmitter can travel about 150feet, but as the signal passes through solid matter I.E the hull of a ship the signal decays….quickly….so your transmitter that could travel 150feet….it is more like 50…at the most.

If I was putting one of these systems in, then I would place transmitters around the ship, in large rooms (to make it into an internet caf.), it would be far to expensive to allow people to have wireless access in their cabins. This would mean that you only need a few transmitters.

Just an idea

If you have any questions PM me

Iball
 
Those commercial liners I've been on don't offer wifi. You would need to have a system where the base station could operate and have relay (sub-)stations linked to it. I'm not sure how feasible this would really be. On the security front, were it restricted to personal PCs where no confidential data are held then it would be OK, but wifi is NOT secure - even when it claims it is! I actually have an Apple base station stowed somewhere which I am not using - if I can find it you'd be welcome to use it to do a pilot study - I won't need it again.
 

the_matelot

War Hero
Moderator
Clanky,

A wifi network connected to milsat is a non-starter.

It is never going to happen. Ever.

This is down to security issues.
 

Hawkeye

Lantern Swinger
clanky said:
Can anyone tell me how possible it would be to have a welfare wireless network fitted to a ship whilst it was alongside during a deployment? I'm talking about a completely unrestricted stand alone network, reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy. How is this issue covered in commercial liners etc? This may seem like a bone question, but I'm interested in getting the full story on this issue. The WE's I know all tend to po-poo this idea, but I'm interested in brainstorming this concept in a wider forum. Any comments (within the confines of OPSEC obviously)

I think this is not a feasible thing to do and would require a massive spend on hardware to get a wireless network working throughout the ship.

From a security point of view I also feel this would not be allowed.

On top of that how would you control access to the internet as you mention "reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy" The rules for internet access are the same within most companies including the RN in a place of work you can not for example browse certain sites and the excuse "I was just doing a bit of recreational surfing :wink: :wink: " would lead to many more stupid compensation claims along the lines of well they made me watch awful scenes while I was onboard the ship.








i
 

clanky

War Hero
the_matelot said:
Clanky,

A wifi network connected to milsat is a non-starter.

It is never going to happen. Ever.

This is down to security issues.
Thats why I stipulated that it had to be standalone, ie not connected to milsat
 

clanky

War Hero
Hawkeye said:
clanky said:
Can anyone tell me how possible it would be to have a welfare wireless network fitted to a ship whilst it was alongside during a deployment? I'm talking about a completely unrestricted stand alone network, reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy. How is this issue covered in commercial liners etc? This may seem like a bone question, but I'm interested in getting the full story on this issue. The WE's I know all tend to po-poo this idea, but I'm interested in brainstorming this concept in a wider forum. Any comments (within the confines of OPSEC obviously)

I think this is not a feasible thing to do and would require a massive spend on hardware to get a wireless network working throughout the ship.

From a security point of view I also feel this would not be allowed.

On top of that how would you control access to the internet as you mention "reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy" The rules for internet access are the same within most companies including the RN in a place of work you can not for example browse certain sites and the excuse "I was just doing a bit of recreational surfing :wink: :wink: " would lead to many more stupid compensation claims along the lines of well they made me watch awful scenes while I was onboard the ship.

Laptop ownership is so widespread now that the system dosnt need to use any pussers hardware, presumably overcoming the access issues.








i
 

Hawkeye

Lantern Swinger
clanky said:
Hawkeye said:
clanky said:
Can anyone tell me how possible it would be to have a welfare wireless network fitted to a ship whilst it was alongside during a deployment? I'm talking about a completely unrestricted stand alone network, reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy. How is this issue covered in commercial liners etc? This may seem like a bone question, but I'm interested in getting the full story on this issue. The WE's I know all tend to po-poo this idea, but I'm interested in brainstorming this concept in a wider forum. Any comments (within the confines of OPSEC obviously)

I think this is not a feasible thing to do and would require a massive spend on hardware to get a wireless network working throughout the ship.

From a security point of view I also feel this would not be allowed.

On top of that how would you control access to the internet as you mention "reserved for the recreational use of the ship's coy" The rules for internet access are the same within most companies including the RN in a place of work you can not for example browse certain sites and the excuse "I was just doing a bit of recreational surfing :wink: :wink: " would lead to many more stupid compensation claims along the lines of well they made me watch awful scenes while I was onboard the ship.

Laptop ownership is so widespread now that the system dosnt need to use any pussers hardware, presumably overcoming the access issues.








i
If laptop ownership is widespread then why not get an individual GPRS internet account that way you can connect to the internet any time anyplace of course you will need a GPRS network card.
 
It will be impossible to get through he TEMPEST testing - you're not even supposed to use bluetooth devices or anything similar onboard. The reality of course is different but them's the rules!
 

clanky

War Hero
Fighting_Sailor said:
It will be impossible to get through he TEMPEST testing - you're not even supposed to use bluetooth devices or anything similar onboard. The reality of course is different but them's the rules!
Surely mobile phones constitute the same tempest threat.
 
the_matelot said:
Clanky,

A wifi network connected to milsat is a non-starter.

It is never going to happen. Ever.

This is down to security issues.
On the other hand considering the cost of inmarsat terminals these days one could look at that which would also give jack a phone home capability albeit at a cost.
 

clanky

War Hero
Maxi_77 said:
the_matelot said:
Clanky,

A wifi network connected to milsat is a non-starter.

It is never going to happen. Ever.

This is down to security issues.
On the other hand considering the cost of inmarsat terminals these days one could look at that which would also give jack a phone home capability albeit at a cost.
The costs of which can be offset by the Milsat bandwidth that'll be freed up for operational use.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
Hawkeye said:
If laptop ownership is widespread then why not get an individual GPRS internet account that way you can connect to the internet any time anyplace of course you will need a GPRS network card.
... and need to be in range of a suitable service provider. GPRS is damned expensive for general surfing in the UK - if you add international roaming access charges on top, it would be prohibitive.
 

FlagWagger

GCM
Book Reviewer
clanky said:
the_matelot said:
Clanky,

A wifi network connected to milsat is a non-starter.

It is never going to happen. Ever.

This is down to security issues.
Thats why I stipulated that it had to be standalone, ie not connected to milsat
From the geeky perspective....

First requirement would be a suitable ISP to provide the ship with access to the internet, which while alongside should be no more difficult than arranging shore power, telephone etc. However, depending upon where you are in the world, having a connection with the necessary bandwidth to allow acceptable speed for everyone could be problematic.

Assuming that you've found a suitable ISP with a large bandwidth connection, then its a simple matter of arranging a suitable network throughout the ship to allow everyone to connect. If you're talking of using wireless, i.e. 802.11 of some flavour, then you could quickly run into problems - in a domestic environment 802.11g routers have problems in connecting out of line of sight, i.e. a hot water tank can interfere with the signal path. Given the large amount of metal in a ship, I think provision of general wi-fi access throughout the messdecks would not be possible; having a hard wired network from the internet access point to a number of wireless hot-spots would be more feasible, but the signals would still be prone to interference from the large variety of electro-magnetic sources on board.

As others have already said, the secuity angle would also need to be addressed. You'd have to be able to demonstrate complete isolation between the welfare network and the ship's own data systems.
 

clanky

War Hero
FlagWagger said:
clanky said:
the_matelot said:
Clanky,

A wifi network connected to milsat is a non-starter.

It is never going to happen. Ever.

This is down to security issues.
Thats why I stipulated that it had to be standalone, ie not connected to milsat
From the geeky perspective....

First requirement would be a suitable ISP to provide the ship with access to the internet, which while alongside should be no more difficult than arranging shore power, telephone etc. However, depending upon where you are in the world, having a connection with the necessary bandwidth to allow acceptable speed for everyone could be problematic.

Assuming that you've found a suitable ISP with a large bandwidth connection, then its a simple matter of arranging a suitable network throughout the ship to allow everyone to connect. If you're talking of using wireless, i.e. 802.11 of some flavour, then you could quickly run into problems - in a domestic environment 802.11g routers have problems in connecting out of line of sight, i.e. a hot water tank can interfere with the signal path. Given the large amount of metal in a ship, I think provision of general wi-fi access throughout the messdecks would not be possible; having a hard wired network from the internet access point to a number of wireless hot-spots would be more feasible, but the signals would still be prone to interference from the large variety of electro-magnetic sources on board.

As others have already said, the secuity angle would also need to be addressed. You'd have to be able to demonstrate complete isolation between the welfare network and the ship's own data systems.
Thanks for some positive info FW.
 

tonrus

Midshipman
Would be a start if we could get WiFi access whilst in UK dockyard ports. I've spent many hours in Mayport, Fl sitting on the Flight Deck with wireless access to the USN internet cafe on the jetty. All free as well.
 

clanky

War Hero
tonrus said:
Would be a start if we could get WiFi access whilst in UK dockyard ports. I've spent many hours in Mayport, Fl sitting on the Flight Deck with wireless access to the USN internet cafe on the jetty. All free as well.
Thats only an option in Guzz if you've got a marinised laptop!
 
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