Future Surface Combatant - or not as the case may be

Discussion in 'The Fleet' started by Oil_Slick, May 21, 2008.

Welcome to the Navy Net aka Rum Ration

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial RN website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. What's the latest cunning plan to replace our increasingly worn out T22's and 23'?
  2. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    At a guess, further downsizing of the "Fleet"
  3. Silly Boy Oil_Slick

    They are not to be replaced. The cunning plan is to have two at sea operational Darings to protect the new CVF and they will then fill the CVF up with A/S Helicopters as the Darings have no suitable A/S weapon or systems to protect her.

    Then as there would be little point to send a CVF to the trouble spot as it would have no offensive capability so it can safely remain in a UK port where it cannot be sunk nor wear itself out.

    In turn this will then give the CVF a 70 year shelf life before they have to protect parliamentary seats by building another one. Also saving of trained crews because both the operational Darings and CVF will only need ship keepers to be on board.

    See its easy when you put a little thought to the matter.

    Cynical of Tumwells Bridge

    PS Also a massive savings on Fuel, Stores, Ordanance, Training, expensive aircraft. What MOD are actually going to do is contract -out to the the Spainish, French, Italians, Indians, Russians or USA who ever can provide a CVF at short notice for the cheapest price. Our CVF will remain in port at all times.
  4. "Darings have no suitable A/S Weapon or Systems to protect her from-- What? Or Whom? Who's after her? Or Them?
  5. Not bad Nutty, with one slight flaw.

    We don't have that many ASW helicopters - at least not serviceable ones and AIUI we don't have the aircrew to fully man them either.

    The actual plan is to implement the idea that submarines are a damned un-English way to fight a war and therefore illegal under the European Convention on Human Rights and thus threaten any potential oppo with a damned good suing (by the wide mouth Frog?) in the event of any unpleasantness. This has proven to be the most cost-effective option under the COEIA studies, as lawyers are not a permanent manpower burden (and indeed can be sourced via PFI), thereby allowing off-balance sheet and through life cost reduction contributions to savings measures, helping the department achieve it's year on year cost savings targets blag, blah blah.......
  6. I can see why you are called Not-A-Boffin

    If we follow your train of thought is would be the most cost effective and result effective to protect UK PLC. The flaw is they would not have to build the CVF so losing all the influence in safe labour seats tup in Jockyland and such Northern places. They have to build but not arm, crew up or send it to sea.

    So I am afraid it defeats the whole idea of the project to build 1 or 2 CVF's. if we use the Courts and HR policy to Defence.


  7. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Apart from the bow mounted sonar, the anti torpedo decoy system and the Merlin/Lynx ASW helo on the back end.......

  8. SiloverFox

    Me thinks that one Merlin Helicopter reliant on its ability to fly being dependent on aircrew availability, weather, serviceability etc is not some thing to trust your CVF to hoping its all OK on the day. Neither can it be in the air 24 hours a day so we are hoping that the bow mounted sonar pinging away telling every submarine within 200 miles precisly where the British CVF is in the Ocean will to locate any SS or SSN in the area to then launch the Merlin to drop a light weight torpedo which even if successful and manages a hit is unlikley to sink a modern SS or SSN which appears to be the opinion of the FAA and others on RR.

    Of course it would be hoped that it would also have a SSN in company but with maybe only two hulls operational in the water that is no certainty when we are down to four Astutes.

    No heavy shipbourne AS weapon. Will that drag some WW11 depht charges out of stores and fit rails on the QD?

  9. And the putative enemy is lurking where?
  10. Somewhere under the oggin... keep up!
  11. Doing what exactly?
  12. Looking at us whilst we do not have the capability of looking back at it. So no more surface mounted "Toad Array" then?
  13. Theres always the Bosun Dinghy.
  14. They will probably find the hedgehog in the back of some storage yard and fix that on the bows
  15. With out a "Toad" they stand less than a snowballs in hell of finding a boat.
  16. It would be nice if I could tell you that... unfortunately the bad guys tend not to make a habit of copying us with all their memos. Damned unsporting of them.
  17. Our Tas Apes came across something that wasn't 60 Van Rentals ;-) whilst we were in the Med. Came as a big surprise to everyone. As the killick maintainer I was then politely asked to leave the SDR as from then on things became "classified".

    Marvellous bit of kit.
  18. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Well all the aviators I work with would not agree with you, and as for Stingray - again the submariners have a more than healthy respect. But what to we know - we only use the kit.

    As for the so called 'heavy weapons' - I think you'll find that a shaped charge is more effective than the random bang of a depth charge, least of that you have to drive over the top of a contact to drop it - and if you are that close then you are way too close - which is why we haven't used them since the demise of the Type 12's.

    As far as protection of the CVS - well of course its not reliant on the escort - thats why they have their own ASW sqn. Concept of layered defence is what we have been doing for years.

    I think this has wandered off track - my original reply to your post was to try and reassure you that the T45 is not as bereft of ASW capability as you might fear.

    As they say 'trust me, I'm a PWO.....'
  19. silverfox

    silverfox War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    To return to the original question - the word on the strasse here is that following t45 hull 6, the FSC is looking to get a bit of acceleration and may be happening sooner than anyone things - riding in on the tails of CVF and MARS...... which is going to really upset the Army as their procurement programme is turning to rats.
  20. If they need a hedgehog to save driving over the contact then look no further than the Maritime Museum in Cartegena they have one they may sell.

    by 1944 Hedge hog and Squid had entered service to prevent overrunning targets.

    Nutty (Still not convinced that a Type 45 is a value for money weapons platform for a 6000 ton unit)

Share This Page