French Soldiers Killed In Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by Bergen, Aug 19, 2008.

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  1. Initial reports are of an extremely complex and well-laid ambush. Ten French soldiers from the 8th Infantry Parachute Regiment had been killed and twenty one wounded. Some reports indicate that four soldiers were captured and executed.

    Other reports are that advanced anti-personnel RPG ammunition [Type 69] is being used by the Taleban.

    Couple this with the departure of Musharaf and we have some real hurdles to face.

    Sincere condolences to the French. RIP men.

  2. Brave Lads

    RIP Boys
  3. RIP, hopefully their resolve will harden and they stay the course..
  4. I've long sounded off about the lack of committment from our Allies?in conflicts as we end up doing more than our share and casualties,
    My thoughts are with the families of these brave men,the French have some fine regiments how this has happened needs answering.
    To fall into such an ambush is critical to future operations I guess.An Afgan soldier passing it on would be my guess, as proven in the past.
    Together with French/Germans/Spaniards/Italians[won't mention the Belgians as they don't want to give us any ammo!] we can defeat these Tallies and bomb them back to the stone age where they seem to want to be.Just need some more bottle but these killings may harden the other nations against such a move.
    It's a tragedy they have had such a loss.RIP
  5. Yet more bright stars in heaven.
    Think of them and when you gaze at the night sky.
  6. R.I.P Brave soldiers... :salut:
  7. R.I.P. Lads. Thoughts and prayers are with family and friends and the wounded. Brothers in arms.
  8. Terrible news.
  9. Indeed, good lads and all sympathy is due. Let's hope their sacrifice won't be for nought, though. I fear it may be if the their Government steps back from all further risk.

    No doubt standard for the location but "executing" prisoners is not good. I suspect that the ragged headed ones don't see the art of war the same as Sun Tzu did. There is certainly no incentive for honourable surrender.
  10. My deep condolences.
  11. Best account of what went down that I have read. Very detailed:-

    How the Taliban gave a French lesson
    By Andrew McGregor

    Conflicting accounts of a Taliban ambush of an elite French military unit in the Surubi district of Kabul province on August 18 have raised new concerns about the future of France's politically unpopular deployment in Afghanistan.

    Ten soldiers were killed and 21 wounded in one of the largest Taliban operations since the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. The French troops were part of a fresh group of 700 soldiers committed by French President Nicolas Sarkozy to join over 2,000 French troops under International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) command.

    When the new French troops arrived they relieved two American
    battalions in the Kapisa region, a strategically important district near Kabul. A French officer described the French troops involved in the ambush as "experienced" and "combat-capable".

    Nevertheless, the Taliban made a political statement by targeting the new additions to the French ISAF contingent. The proximity of a major Taliban operation to Kabul has alarmed many within the capital, who point out that previous attacks within Kabul's security belt have heralded the eventual fall of the city to insurgent forces.

    On August 18, 30 soldiers of the 8eme Regiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (8th RPIMa - Airborne Infantry) and another 30 from the Regiment de Marche du Tchad (RMT) were tasked with reconnoitering the Uzbeen valley route between the Tagab district of Kapisa and the Surubi district of Kabul provinces. They were joined by two sections of Afghan troops and a unit of American special forces. Most of the French were carried in armored vanguard vehicles (Vehicule de l'Avant Blinde - VAB), armored personnel carriers built by GIAT Industries.

    Formed in 1951 for service in Indochina, the 8th RPIMa was dissolved after being virtually annihilated in the 1954 Battle of Dien Bien Phu, only to be revived in 1956 for service in the Algerian conflict. Since its relocation from Algeria to the French garrison town of Castres in 1963, the 8th RPIMa has been deployed in at least 15 countries on various missions, including recent deployments in the first Gulf War in 1991, Cambodia, Kurdish northern Iraq, the Congo, Macedonia, Bosnia and Kosovo. Five-hundred paratroopers of the RPIMa were sent to Afghanistan in June and July.

    "Marine" units like the 8th RPIMa are not comparable to the US or British marines; the name refers rather to the 19th century Ministere de la Marine which was responsible for French armed forces overseas, as opposed to the metropolitan army, which came under the Ministry of War. The troupes de marine became troupes coloniales as part of the French Colonial Army in 1900 with a consequent change in the titles of the units involved, but the term "marine" was revived after the post-war collapse of the French empire to signify volunteer units designated for overseas service. The all-volunteer troupes de marine include infantry, light cavalry, artillery and airborne infantry units.

    The Regiment de Marche du Tchad is a mechanized unit of the troupes de marine. Now based in France, the RMT was formed in 1943 from metropolitan soldiers serving in the Regiment des Tirailleurs Senegalais du Tchad after rallying to the Free French cause during General Philippe Leclerc's campaign in Chad. Four-hundred and fifty members of the RMT were sent to Afghanistan in May; another 150 serve as peacekeepers in Lebanon. The French force also included a small number of men from the 35eme Regiment d'Artillerie Parachutiste (35e RAP - Airborne Artillery Regiment).

    The multinational force struggled through difficult terrain and extreme heat along a difficult and winding mountainous road in an area known for Taliban activity. Army chief of staff General Jean-Louis Georgelin described the ambush as "a well-organized trap" on "terrain that was extremely favorable to the enemy". The ambush was launched at 3:30 in the afternoon after the paratroopers left their APCs to reconnoiter a pass on foot.

    As one survivor pointed out, the pass was nearly three hours out from the column's starting point; "enough time for the Taliban to be warned by their accomplices of our arrival". French General Michel Stollsteiner, ISAF commander in the Kabul region, stated, "In the past two weeks we had largely secured the zone but you have to be frank, we were guilty of overconfidence."

    French press interviews with survivors of the ambush describe a rapid breakdown in command and communications, with Taliban marksmen taking down French soldiers at will. Among the first to be killed were the deputy section leader and the radioman of the advance unit. The warrant officer in command was shot in the shoulder. Soon afterwards, the paratroopers' radio communication with the RMT broke down.

    Heavily outnumbered, the French remained pinned down and under fire from small arms, machine guns and rocket launchers for four hours without reinforcements. Ammunition for all weapons other than their assault rifles ran out as the soldiers were unable to reach supplies still in their vehicles, although a VAB with a section from the 35e Regiment d'Artillerie Parachutiste in the rear of the column was able to deploy the vehicle's machine gun and four 120mm mortars in support.

    Some of the wounded alleged that their unit was hit by fire from their Afghan allies and NATO aircraft. Fire from A-10 Thunderbolts was directed by the American special forces while a pair of F-15 fighters passed through without using their weapons because the French and Taliban were too closely intertwined.

    An initial attempt by American helicopters to evacuate the wounded failed due to heavy fire. French EC725 Caracal helicopters arrived to provide fire support - one helicopter brought in a doctor and 10 French commandos from the rapid reaction force in Kabul. A group leader from the rapid reaction force who arrived after a 90-minute drive through difficult terrain described the situation on his arrival; "We couldn't see the enemy and we didn't know how many of them there were. We started climbing, but after 20 minutes we started coming under fire from the rear. We were surrounded."

    Mortars (81mm) also arrived with the reinforcements but helicopters were unable to evacuate the wounded until 8pm. Six hours after the ambush began, Taliban fighters began to break off, though many remained in the area, launching a last attack at 9am the next day.

    Despite official assurances that nearly all the casualties occurred in the first minutes of the ambush, other accounts suggested that four soldiers were captured before being killed by Taliban fighters. An investigative report by French weekly Le Canard enchaine claimed that the column's interpreter disappeared only hours before the operation began, suggesting the French troops were betrayed either by the interpreter or by Afghan troops attached to the column. The report repeated the claim four French soldiers were captured and executed by the Taliban shortly after the ambush began.

    During the rescue of the wounded, an armored car of the RMT overturned when the road collapsed and the vehicle fell into a ravine, killing a Kanak trooper from New Caledonia and injuring four others. A medic from the 2eme Regiment Etranger Parachutiste (Foreign Legion) was also killed after making several forays to bring in wounded comrades from the 8th RPIMa.

    Unlike the first-hand accounts carried by the press, French Defense Minister Herve Morin insisted that reinforcements were sent within 20 minutes and there were no indications of friendly fire. Pentagon and NATO spokesmen also denied having any evidence of such incidents. The Afghan Ministry of Defense stated that 13 Taliban fighters, including one Pakistani, were killed in the battle. Some French officers claimed 40 to 70 militants were killed, but acknowledged finding only one body. Claude Gueant, general secretary of French President Nicolas Sarkozy, maintained "the majority of the assailants were not Afghans".

    A Taliban statement entitled "New and Interesting Information on the Killing and Wounding of the French Soldiers in Surubi" claimed that hundreds of Taliban fighters using heavy and light weapons had overwhelmed a French infantry battalion of 100 men and 18 tanks (APCs?) and other military vehicles. The statement describes the infliction of "hundreds" of French casualties and the destruction of five tanks and eight other military vehicles before locals descended to loot abandoned French weapons.

    The region in which the attack took place is considered a stronghold of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hezb-i Islami movement, which also issued a claim of responsibility for the attack.

    In the aftermath of the attack, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner declared, "Nobody is thinking of leaving Afghanistan," but added a few days later, "We need what is called 'Afghanization', that's to say, to pass responsibilities, all responsibilities, as quickly as possible to the Afghans."

    The ambush and recent suicide attacks on American outposts reveal an escalation in the violence and effectiveness of Taliban attacks on Western forces in Afghanistan. Added to the steady attrition of NATO, ISAF and US personnel, these new attacks are intended to remind the West that despite seven years of campaigning, the Taliban are as strong as ever. Since the ambush, the French deployment in Afghanistan has come under sharp criticism from the public, the press and opposition politicians.

    The French public has never had a taste for involvement in Afghanistan, reflected in a recent Le Parisien opinion poll that showed 55% of respondents believe France should withdraw from Afghanistan. With Prime Minister Francois Fillon calling for a September vote in parliament on the future of the French military commitment to Afghanistan, Sarkozy's efforts to expand France's role in that country may come at a considerable political cost.


  12. There is a big scandal today in France over the photos of Taliban fighters wearing captured French clothes, ammunition and bullet-proof vest. They accused a magazine for voyerism. It is high time for the folks to understand it is a war and it is what happens at wars.
    Awful news: four of the wounded had their throats cut.
  13. Nice piece of info there Bergen.
  14. Cheers BP - I didn't post any of the photos; but they are pretty horrific. Seems [as usual] that Kipling knew what he was talking about:-

    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Soldier of the Queen!

    -- Rudyard Kipling

    Afghanistan and the Pak border should always have been our main concern. We let Bush and his Neocon eedjits divert to the stupidity of Iraq and we are going to pay a hell of a price for that decision. Pakistan is a nest of vipers that we are going to have to deal with or let them slowly bleed us in Afghanistan.

    Bummer :thumbdown:

  15. So often, recently, my thoughts have turned to;

    I'm not sure any of the great man's work's completely match the current "scrimmage" but there is still a certain timelessness. Speaking of which, we are going to be there for a long time, so it seems.
  16. Or...: :dwarf:

    Us, and them
    And after all were only ordinary men.
    Me, and you.
    God only knows its not what we would choose to do.
    Forward he cried from the rear
    And the front rank died.
    And the general sat and the lines on the map
    Moved from side to side.
    Black and blue
    And who knows which is which and who is who. :thumright:
  17. 'Kinnel PoL - Those lines are never out of my head. As a young boy I was routinely made to memorize large amounts of poetry and Latin grammar. I found the rythm of Kipling to be easy and entirely appropriate: Try

    "One wheel on the wings of the morning
    One wheel on the edge of the Pit
    And a drop into nothing below you
    As straight as a beggar can spit"

    Or for all of us who left England:-

    "I'm sick of wasting leather on these English paving-stones
    And this blasted English weather wakes the fever in my bones
    So ship me somewhere East of Suez, where the best is like the worst

    Where there ain't no Ten Commandments and a man can raise a thirst"

    RM :thumright:

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