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Former Second Sea Lord Governer of Gibraltar

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Was this the same 2SL who gave the 'OK' with regard the 'Cornwall 15' (Iranian Hostages) to breach Queens Regulations to speak to the press for money, without telling the Prime Minister & then bringing huge embarrassment upon the Navy, the one who then left the mob a bit prematurely?

Oh well, good to see he managed to land on his feet then... :wink:
 
I understand that Lord Mandelson won't be available for a few more months, unless he has to resign for impropriety a third time before then.
 
Why on Earth do the Gibraltarians need a Governor? For a place with the population of a large village / very small town, that already elects a Prime Minister, surely the Governor is over egging the pudding?
 

Seaweed

War Hero
Book Reviewer
The Gib PM represents the people on the Rock. The Governor has always been a retired naval or military man, of senior rank, so that as HMG's represents he shows the Spanish that it's our Rock and we intend to keep it. However I fear the new EU superstate will strip it from us, as there will be no problem for Spain to gather up the necessary 'qualified majority' votes in the Council of Ministers, and the UN principle of self-determination will be held not to apply. A useful dry run for stripping us of the Falkands late.
 
Seaweed said:
The Gib PM represents the people on the Rock. The Governor has always been a retired naval or military man...... A useful dry run for stripping us of the Falkands late.

Although most Governors have been retired Servicemen, David Durie was the Gov in 2001 - a Civil Servant. On your second point, I don't think that this necessarily follows. There is no physical connection between Argentina and The Falkland Islands, whereas Gib is attached to the Iberian mainland.

Find me a high income Gibraltarian who doesn't own at least one home in Spain and I'd be very, very surprised......
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
Naval_Gazer said:
I understand that Lord Mandelson won't be available for a few more months, unless he has to resign for impropriety a third time before then.

:lol: Yep, I s'pose "Lord 'The Comeback-Kid' Mandeleson" can black-cat Admiral Johns with regard coming up smelling of roses after being up to his neck in it. Good point.
 

labrum

War Hero
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
Seaweed said:
The Gib PM represents the people on the Rock. The Governor has always been a retired naval or military man...... A useful dry run for stripping us of the Falkands late.

Although most Governors have been retired Servicemen, David Durie was the Gov in 2001 - a Civil Servant. On your second point, I don't think that this necessarily follows. There is no physical connection between Argentina and The Falkland Islands, whereas Gib is attached to the Iberian mainland.

Find me a high income Gibraltarian who doesn't own at least one home in Spain and I'd be very, very surprised......

Trust me they exist. You are correct in your observation that many Gibraltarians who can afford it have second homes in Spain, but, then again, so have many other Brits, just take a drive up the coast and keep driving.

Now then, is there a suggestion in your assertion that Gibraltarians are 2nd class Brits and as such not entitled to 'colonize' the Costas alongside their UK based counterparts?

(Edited for punctuation!)
 
labrum said:
Now then, is there a suggestion in your assertion that Gibraltarians are 2nd class Brits and as such not entitled to 'colonize' the Costas alongside their UK based counterparts?

(Edited for punctuation!)

No. I do not believe that Gibraltarians are Brits at all. Their history is glorious in the support of the Britain of old, but we are now all Europeans, although I am one of many who is not totally comfortable with the situation. Gibraltar appears to want nothing to do with Spain, on the one hand, and to own parts of it on the other, which I find a little disingenuous.
 

labrum

War Hero
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
labrum said:
Now then, is there a suggestion in your assertion that Gibraltarians are 2nd class Brits and as such not entitled to 'colonize' the Costas alongside their UK based counterparts?

(Edited for punctuation!)

No. I do not believe that Gibraltarians are Brits at all. Their history is glorious in the support of the Britain of old, but we are now all Europeans, although I am one of many who is not totally comfortable with the situation. Gibraltar appears to want nothing to do with Spain, on the one hand, and to own parts of it on the other, which I find a little disingenuous.

The root of your discomfort is you not seeing Gibraltarians as British. Time will tell whether being European will erode all Europeans' feelings of national identity.

Gibraltarians vary in their attitude towards Spain, these days the vast majority live alongside their neighbours and get along just fine. If, however, "nothing to do with them" means abandoning their national identity at British and Gibraltarian then you would be absolutely right. Would you make the same judgement about British and English living in Dover were France to be laying claim to it?
 
labrum said:
The root of your discomfort is you not seeing Gibraltarians as British. Time will tell whether being European will erode all Europeans' feelings of national identity.

Gibraltarians vary in their attitude towards Spain, these days the vast majority live alongside their neighbours and get along just fine. If, however, "nothing to do with them" means abandoning their national identity at British and Gibraltarian then you would be absolutely right. Would you make the same judgement about British and English living in Dover were France to be laying claim to it?

Again, no. However, Gibraltar is attached to mainland Spain, rather like Portland is attached to mainland England and I would certainly have a problem if the French laid claim to Portland!
 

mikh

MIA
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
labrum said:
The root of your discomfort is you not seeing Gibraltarians as British. Time will tell whether being European will erode all Europeans' feelings of national identity.

Gibraltarians vary in their attitude towards Spain, these days the vast majority live alongside their neighbours and get along just fine. If, however, "nothing to do with them" means abandoning their national identity at British and Gibraltarian then you would be absolutely right. Would you make the same judgement about British and English living in Dover were France to be laying claim to it?

Again, no. However, Gibraltar is attached to mainland Spain, rather like Portland is attached to mainland England and I would certainly have a problem if the French laid claim to Portland!

How about the channel Islands, they may not be attached to either mainland, but they are closer to France than the UK, so taking your argument one step further and using proximity as a base, that would mean the french have a greater claim to the islands than the UK
 

ralph01

Midshipman
Why all the vitriol about VAdm Johns and the CORNWALL incident?

I give much more credence to the theory that the key decisions were taken directly by 10 Downing St and MOD, and that 2SL was wheeled out as duty uniform to take the flak when it all went wrong.

I'm glad the Governor of Gib's position has gone to a good hand.
 

Ninja_Stoker

War Hero
Moderator
ralph01 said:
I give much more credence to the theory that the key decisions were taken directly by 10 Downing St and MOD, and that 2SL was wheeled out as duty uniform to take the flak when it all went wrong.

By all accounts he's a good bloke so there's certainly no vitriol, merely observations on the stated fact rather than unproven theories to the contrary.

It may well turn out to be a true theory given that he was made governer & given a knighthood - possibly by way of recompense for being put up as the 'fall guy', keeping schtum & letting the true culprits 'off the hook'.

After all, Mandleson aside, who ever heard of a knighthood being given to someone leaving under a cloud?
 

SAM_The_Man_Dicosta

Lantern Swinger
asst_dep_to_dep_asst said:
Why on Earth do the Gibraltarians need a Governor? For a place with the population of a large village / very small town, that already elects a Prime Minister, surely the Governor is over egging the pudding?

A bit like Monaco then?
 
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