Foreign students 'are better at English than British

Discussion in 'Diamond Lil's' started by slim, Aug 13, 2007.

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  1. Ar yoo suprized?
     
  2. I note they only specified Singapore and Brunei as supplying students with a good grasp of English. Whilst I do agree we could do better in the teaching of english once again the Wail tries to put us down further than we deserve, it really is a destructive little rag.
     
  3. I would disagree with that Maxi. I believe that the mail is flagging up a failing of national importance. The standard of English both written and spoken is far lower than it was 20 years ago.
    English and Maths should be the two core subjects taught from starting school through to leaving.
     
  4. Yet again, thanks all round to Liebore!
     
  5. Yet another myth, the rot started under the milk snatcher, I suspect illiterate teachers were cheaper to employ.
     
  6. FFS Maxi, one drop of bait and you just can't help yourself, can you?
     
  7. Maxi spices the site up and I hope he keeps replying. The site needs differing viewpoints. At times I have posted items that I don't necessarily believe in put just to put an alternate point of view.
     
  8. I don't think he spices anything up Slim, I find his viewpoint very blinkered.
     
  9. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    Be honest Slim, you are just elderly and confused :dwarf:
     
  10. Whilst I agree that English and Maths are key subjects I do not believe that the situation amongst our top students is as the Wail suggests. Any fool can pick up errors such as they showed from essays rushed of in a hurry or the heat of an exam. Spelling and grammar were Victorian inventions especially to keep the lower classes like you and me in our places, it is a shame to see you being so supportive of such a socially devisive system.
     
  11. Elderly no I consider elderly to be much older than my age. Confused, in what way? Please enlighten me.
     
  12. Mmmmmmmmmm and you took the bait well too.

    edited to correct spelling before teacher Slim got on to me again.
     
  13. janner

    janner War Hero Book Reviewer

    It was in reply to the above
     
  14. Sorry, now I know what you mean.
     
  15. Personally, I've found that the basic standards of English, that is, grammar and spelling, is appalling in those leaving school in the last 15 years. This is coupled with a complete lack of numeracy and plain mathematical common sense. Both of these situations are the result in an education system that has evaluated pupils on knowledge without looking at communication. When I sat exams at school, you got marked down if the paper was unreadable or badly written, and that included the need for a good standard of handwriting (another dying skill), grammar and spelling. Nowadays, you could write an A-Level paper in text-speak and still get a pass.

    EFL students (English as a Foreign Language) are still, on the whole, taught the language from the foundations up, including grammar and spelling. So the Wail's "findings" are hardly revolutionary. However, with the advent and acceptance of calculators in the classroom and with a media that virtually piles praise on celebrities who announce that could never do maths or see the point, is it any wonder that standards are dropping?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of learning by rote, but there is a place for spelling checks and times tables teaching. Add to that list what I call "Gazey's Law" (so named after a very good maths teacher I had): make sure your answer makes sense. So if you divide 137 by 56 and get a result of 300 and something, you've probably made a mistake.
     
  16. I would disagree with that Maxi. I believe that the mail is flagging up a failing of national importance. The standard of English both written and spoken is far lower than it was 20 years ago.
    English and Maths should be the two core subjects taught from starting school through to leaving.[/quote]

    I would agree that standards have slipped. My job involves, amongst other things, translating letters or statements from British servicemen (mostly Army) to various local authorities and law enforcement agencies. Sometimes the biggest problem is reading or trying to understand the original English document.
     
  17. Stand by for in comming!!!!!!!!!!!

    As a teacher in the post compulsory sector, and having taught in Singapore at both pre and Post 16, I can assure you that there is truth in the argument, that English an maths in the UK is on a fundamental level quite poor.

    HOWEVER: The Singaporean, methodology of teaching English is very clear and concise! There is now latitude for creativity, and it shows in the work they produce, It is very much like Slim's stuff. Well writing but lacking, in any vestige of originality, where as the UK kids do have fun with the language.

    Singaporean Kids have a number of obstacles to over come, English, is the language they are taught in, they HAVE to Learn to read Write and communicate in Mandarin, and they also have to learn their mother tongue (Hokien, Teachow, Malay, Urdu). So they are trained from a very young age to communicate in very many different ways. The common term out in Singas is “SINGLISHâ€

    When the Young folk join the college, they claim to have GCSE A,B,C. But it is not until we start marking the work and sending it back flagged as “standard not achievedâ€. ((Slim We are not allowed to use the F work (FAILED)) That they start to use what they had been taught at school. It is quite amazining to see the work they can produce when they are told that it does not meet the standard we need. ( had the teachers at the schools pushed a little harder then they would have improved before leaving)

    So in short, they do know how to write well, and they have been taught all the skills to meet the requirements but unless they are told that shoddy work is not acceptable they will continue to produce poo!

    With respects to the folk who use English as a second language, all I can say is that they are proficient, but not able to produce anything other than turgid work, good grammar, but poor content and contextualisation.
     
  18. It's patently obvious that there are those on the site who if an item is reported in the Mail will respond to the item by stating that the mail is lying. Though mail reports are mainly from the viewpoint of it's editorial staff there is usually a percentage of truth.
     
  19. I rarely suggest the Wail is lying, it is just the way they manipulate a limited version of the truth to make it look like something else. In this cae this total condemnation of the UK youth today seems to be based on the non scientifically derived opinion of one academic whom I suspect should know better.
     

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