Forces in the wake of the latest friendly fire incident.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs' started by chockhead819, Aug 25, 2007.

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  1. Sad as it is no one likes to see it happen but yet again there will be a witch hunt for what went wrong but everyone seems to be missing a key issue IMHO where is crabair?, this isn't a dig at them but why do we not have our own aircraft ready & available to support our own guys, We know how to work together, Are Ops just made up without any thought of aircover?

    With the Russians kicking off again the crabs now have another operation ongoing, Even if we had an "I" class ship in the Northern waters we couldn't help as we have no fighters onboard.

    We as ex/ serving members of the RN know whats going wrong especially us WAFUs, The majority of aircraft we have are of Falklands era. All we need is something to down the Lynx / seakings & we are fucked, as well as the rumours about the Merlin some questions need to be asked.

    The crabs are in the same boat, with Nimrods, Chinooks, Puma & Tornado on there last legs

    The army are shitting on their lads big style, I know a guy who did 2 gulf tours with Regiment A which was amalgamated into a new Regiment B & has done another further 2 tours because they are in a new Regiment & guess what, He has another tour coming next year.

    We either have to have a massive spend on defence even if it means buying F-18s, MIG 29 etc or give up the idea we are still a world power.

    Rant over
  2. We have the 6th Largest GDP on the planet, after USA, China, Japan, India, and Germany. We have the 4th largest military spend after USA, China and Russia. We pay a front line soldier about £18k per annum.

    So one must ask the question where is all the money going? Is it being spent wisely? As a separate question if we wish to behave like the USA, should we not spend as a percentage of GDP like the USA. You do not see China nor Russia entering into military adventures mere spending on building up their military. Without recent experience it is debatable how effective their forces would be if called upon to act against us.
  3. sgtpepperband

    sgtpepperband War Hero Moderator Book Reviewer

    Phil, I know many in RR have criticised his agenda in the past, but I have recently completed reading "Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs" by Lewis Page. This book does explain in some detail where the money has gone... 8O :roll:
  4. One sure fire way to get me flashed up is to hear one of our chinless wonders stand up in both houses and say that this government is donating funds to this or that. IT'S NOT goverment funds IT'S taxpayers money.
    It seems taxpayers money is available to throw away on whatever whim said chinless wonders consider may get them some votes next time round But isn't available to be spent on the very people ensuring that we have DEMOCRACY in this fcucked up country of ours!
    RIP to the lads we've just lost.....again!
    My condolances to their families.
  5. Did anyone see Army on the Cheap last night with Col Bob Stewart?

    I think he made some valid points - the TA are keen and professional but desperately underfunded, undertrained and being used as a temp agency for the Army.

    However, I found it quite ironic that whilst he was there the three RAF lads were killed, and one was a reservist (no mention) and he went into the hospital to meet some reservist medics - he found a surgeon and whilst he was called a 'reservist' there was no mention that he was RNR. It always makes me wonder if journos miss these basis facts because they do not dig deep enough and only accept face value, or he thought that it might confuse viewers if he mentioned that actually there are other reservists, not just the TA.
  6. Friendly fire - what a shit expression.
    If you shoot at something/someone you are never being 'friendly' but intending to kill or maim, generally the former.
    But hey ho! The bankers will get richer and the poor relatives of the victims will be treated shabbily. My heart goes out to the families/friends/partners of the deceased who must be having an awful time.
  7. Russia and China are not as yet controlled by the super rich banking fraternities.
    All western countries, particularly the U.S. are completely controlled by these people. The war in Iraq is a classic example of their intention to bring under their own control those few countries remaining outside it.
    Read the history of the Rothschild organisation and how they made capital by misleading the markets as to who had won the battle of Waterloo. Or, how I G Faben bankrolled the Nazi regime.
    The present war in Irag is no better than the Opium wars of the 1800's or the invasion of Vietnam.
    It makes me so angry that we got ourselves dragged into this. But, earnestly believe that had Mr Blair refused to cooperate he would have been standing on very shaking ground as regards his own safety.
  8. I fully agree that are thoughts must be with the families of these lost brothers.

    But with regards to the other points you make I can not agree with you. Not withstanding that the Iraq government, had bee selling their oil on the Euro spot market and not for US Dollors, the septics and others including ourselves went in to Iraq as we believed that there were WMD's. Sadam Had Used nerve agents on his own folk, and the Northern Kurdish population. The man was a fecking physo, and so were the people surounding him. Yes it was a MAJOR COCK up going in and we should have known better.

    Your theory about the World banking organization, A little too thin an argument, the banking organizations you talked of, have been bebunked in many journals over the past 2 years. But you are entitled to your oppinion, and that is what it is an OPPINION, not fact and not proven.

    The sptics are providing air cover for the ground troops in Afganistan, because thay have the hardware, and we and other members of the ground forces DON'T. They air support is being provided by a large Number of the USA National Guard, who have always been gung ho! But not really up to speed. A little like our TA and other reservist forces. BLUE ON BLUE is very sad however; has always happend in war, and I am sure it will always happen. (we did a few in the Falklands, did we not?).

    RIP our guys.
    Leave the politics outof this one.
  9. Sorry Pinch you are wrong the USAF F-15E's that were involved in the incident are actually regular full pilots and RIO's. They have saved 0000's of Brit lives so far. Lets not start the old ''Air National Guard'' stuff becuase in this case I can assure they were not.
  10. Who couldn`t read a map ? or was it aim straight?
    Condolences to the families .
    Our pubs already a drinker down I don`t wish it on any one
  11. Its not as simple as that.
  12. Please re-read what I wrote, I concur and have said that without them then we would be in the Brown stuff. I accept you deeper knowledge about the F15 pilots. Do you agree with me that Blue on Blue is an unfortunate aspect of war?
  13. Pinch,Yet again I have come across as a little obtuse.Yes I agree totally that Blue on blue is an unfortunate aspect of war.See pm
  14. Quite a meandering thread so far, the original post was basically that underfunding caused us to rely on American air cover, and by inference caused the deaths.

    The debate of whether we should be in Iraq is a completely separate one and has been much covered in other threads. The fatalities were in Afghanistan. Sussex you comments about Waterloo, Nazis and Vietnam seemed to be a ramble rather than a point. Perhaps you could make it cleared for people like me.

    Whilst I agree Blue on Blue is an enevitability of war, proper training and investment in technology can minimise the occurences.

    I share all the other posters sentiments that it is an appalling loss of 3 men (the oldest of whom was 21), and I can't start to imagine the grief now being experienced by the ones they leave behind. Hence my point that when budgets are squeezed any waste is offensive because it can mean servicemen needlessly losing their lives.
  15. I agree 'Blue on Blue' is an unfortunate aspect of war but it should not be happening so frequently and with the same nation responsible. There is a world of difference between flying a combat aircraft at the weekends and a Boeing 777 as your day job.
  16. Who told you the yanks are responsible Finknottle ???
  17. I wasn't aware that I had said the septics were responsible?
  18. But you did finknottle.
  19. Maybe a hypothesis but no clear statement of fact.
  20. Air 'Bombardment' will always have an element of 'hit or miss' doing close support .

    Its been happening since WW2 at least. Variety of causes include pilot error,wrong co-ordinates and unmarked own side forces. Smart bombs do
    help alleviate the problem however like all things shit happens sometimes.

    My regrets and condolences to the families and friends of the deceased

    C'est la Guerre

    :nemo: :nemo:

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