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Flags and Pennants

civvy_SJM2

Badgeman
Hi all,
Is there a difference between a flag and a pennant; if so, what's the difference?

Many thanks,
civvy_SJM2 :)
 
Last edited:

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
As I recall from my Dabber days, a flag is square/rectangular, while a pennant is long and tapered. A broad pennant is different again - as in a Commodore's broad pennant.

I'm sure certain a bunting tosser will be along soon with the correct definition.
 

civvy_SJM2

Badgeman
Hi @SONAR-BENDER and @Dredd,
Thanks for your replies. Is that why Commodore isn't considered a flag rank? That has always confused me because I always thought a Commodore's broad pennant was simply a variant of a flag.

PS:
@SONAR-BENDER This line gave me a laugh hehe. :D :
I'm sure certain a bunting tosser will be along soon with the correct definition.
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
Is that why Commodore isn't considered a flag rank? That has always confused me because I always thought a Commodore's broad pennant was simply a variant of a flag.
Good question, well asked! Must admit I'd never even thought of that.

There's never a bunting tosser around when you need one.
(But I bet Sol will tell us!)
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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United States Navy command pennants

Royal Navy Pennant
A broad pennant is a triangular swallow-tailed naval pennant flown from the masthead of a warship afloat or a naval headquarters ashore to indicate the presence of either:
(a) a Royal Navy officer in the rank of Commodore, or
(b) a U.S. Navy Captain serving in a designated Commodore command billet.[1]
The flag is so called as a broad pennant because its dimensions are roughly 2:3.
Starting in 1826, a Royal Navy commodore would fly one of two broad pennants depending on whether he had a captain for his ship (First Class Commodore), or also had to command it himself (Second Class). This difference was shown by a ball added to the pennant of the Second Class rank holder, as shown above. In 1958, the rank of First Class Commodore was terminated, after which only the red and white broad pennant with a ball was used by the Royal Navy.[2]
The U.S. Navy will also refer to this flag as a Commodore's "command pennant." In the U.S. Navy, the blue and white pennant will contain either numbers or letters indicating the command designation or name. For example, the pennant for the Commodore commanding Destroyer Squadron 25 (DESRON 25) will have the numeral "25" on the field of their command pennant. Likewise, the Commodore commanding Strike Fighter Wing Atlantic will have the letters "SFWL" or "CSFWL" on their pennant. In U.S. Naval Aviation, this pennant is also used by the commander of a carrier air wing.[3]
The broad command pennant is used in all respects the same as an admiral's flag. When embarked aboard a warship as the senior officer, it is broken aboard that commodore's flagship at the same points of hoist as an admiral's flag. It is also carried at the bow of a boat in which they are embarked, emblazoned on their social letterhead, displayed on a staff in his or her office ashore, and, if they should die in command, half-masted aboard their flagship and carried before their casket in the funeral ceremony.
Also in the U.S. Navy, a red and white Burgee command pennant, similar to but smaller in the size than the Commodore's command pennant, has been flown by subordinate commanding officers, typically officers in the rank of Commander, of smaller aircraft units such as aviation squadrons or similar precedence units such as SEAL Teams or Naval Mobile Construction Battalions.[4] For commanding officers of commissioned warships, the ship's commissioning pennant is considered to carry the symbolism of that vessel's commanding officer.[5]
 

Branch-Hopper

War Hero
Thanks for your replies. Is that why Commodore isn't considered a flag rank?
Sheldon Cooper mode active//
Going back in (not so far away) history Commodore was an appointment, not a rank. A senior Captain was appointed Commodore when he needed to have temporary command over his peers. when a particular operation (for example) was completed the Commodore would revert to being a Captain.

Hence, whilst he was a Commodore, the ship in which he was embarked needed to be marked would need a pennant; hence the need for the Commodore's pennant. However the rank that that individual held was not a Flag Rank, as such.

I suspect the terminology we use today simply has not caught up with Commodore becoming a substantive rank, rather than a temporary appointment.
Sheldon Cooper mode deactivated//
 

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