First ever female in Royal Marines!!!

Discussion in 'The Corps' started by royalbumbaclod, Apr 3, 2008.

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  1. Why do you think females are not allowed in the corps? Do yuou think they should be? Would it fcuk up the rep that is the RM's?

    Go forth...discuss! :w00t:
     
  2. There has already been a woman in the Royal Marines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Snell.

    The reason women are not allowed in the Royal Marines is that women are not currently allowed to fight on the front line. This is a government policy and not a RN/RM policy.
     
  3. I've seen them in the band many a time :wav:
     
  4. There is one female officer (at least) wearing RM uniform

    Detachment Cdr of Warrington Marine Cadets is a female Lt by the name of Tina. looks good in her uniform too.

    http://seacadets.ms-sc.org/Join-the-Cadets/Adults/Volunteer-Case-Studies/Officer-in-Charge-of-MCD-$9-Hospital-Training-Manager

    The Marine Cadets also had/have female Sgt PTI, ditto uniform as above.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Do you think they should be allowed to fight on the frontline so long as they pass all the training etc? Common lets get discussions going :spam1:
     
  6. No, due to physical strength.

    Women can only operate (at optimum) at 70% that of a male.Psychological effects of watching a female colleague sustain injury has apparently been proven ( Israeli army) to affect male colleagues more than those sustained by another male.

    Issue- although has a gender element naturally should be no more than what is the best for the team as a whole.

    This has nothing to do with mental stamina or the talents of the female gender or individual women, just biology. Both genders are geared for different things, overlap allowing.

    Studies/opinions contradicting the above welcome.
     
  7. Seadog

    Seadog War Hero Moderator

    Capn Pugwash wrote

    Your link shows her in civvies (perhaps you have direct access) and according to the text was a Sub Lieutenant so, not a marine by any stretch of the imagination/definition.

    Hannah Snell? Check
    Girly Bandies? For all their merits, no.

    At least one female has passed the AACC.
     
  8. Seaweed

    Seaweed War Hero Book Reviewer

    Last time I watched a Beat Retreat there were indeed girlie Bandies, hair in a bun under the back of the helmet.
     
  9. FFS! I will brief because I want to get my head down. I'll keep it KISS. What's the prob? Strength? Differences between men are just as great if not greater than the so-called diffs between men and women. Chauvinism? The argument which says that men lay down their life for the bird? Hilarious. (but comforting for the extinct Neanderthal ie the human species outlived by Homo Sapien).

    The so-called Israeli experience is a myth, chauvinistic and like other myths largely asserted by people with a love for a pre-communist state of nature; or by students looking for a year out .. nothing to do with shagging hot looking women, of course.

    Commando or para? Yes, a woman has passed AAC, so has a 55 yr old lad. How come? Utter commitment, and because they were given the opportunity to do so (Commando ethos: Humility, cheerfulness, etc). Paras take the piss. Of course they do, their ethos amounts to running about with a log and treating said log as though it were conscious member of their cult. Paras, especially those with big mouths and who seem to celebrate ignorance always forget that many of their most famous WWII vets were writers, poets and actors, darling. They're so macho, of course that whereas baby marines are taught hunility and history, baby paras are taught to ignore such 'anomolies' as women of the SOE! Such women must be cnuts or a fantasy since they dared to do ....

    I saw a brave and switched on female RMP in NI in the seventies. Who the feck are we to disrespect her? If anyone has a problem with women in war, it's their problem, not the woman's! History, especially British history, is littered with brave, fighting women who delivered the goods when given the chance.

    Slightly drunk, but I've enjoyed it!

    Harry x
     
  10. Women may well be capable of passing the AACC and indeed regular Royal Marine recruit training, I would doubt though that any British Government would allow recruitment of women into a front line unit for the simple reason that a womans presence effects the combat effectiveness of a section/Unit as the Israelis have found.
    This is due to the men taking on, even unconsciously, a protective role towards the female rather than getting on and winning the firefight or task at hand.
    Edit to add some research DOH!!
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/904399.html
    So it seems that the Israelis may be moving towards integrating women into combat units, arguments from both sides traditional Neanderthals (Me?? Surely shome mishtake) and women Brigadier Generals (IDF) and of course the Rabbis ("Men must not get too close in the Humvee with the lady girls Oi Vey"!!)
    Women in Cadet units and the RM Band Service hardly equates with service in a Commando unit.
    Anyhoo can you imagine some of the munters who'd try and get in and ruin the All Royals Are Essence Rep of the Corps
    NZB
    Edited by me to add some basic research.
     
  11. American experiences in Iraq are proving the lie that women can't handle combat. Are English women weaker? I think not, not if my grandmother is any example.
     
  12. Damn! NZ and Jarhead, I was too late. See my contribution, above.
     
  13. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

  14. Took yours on board Harry and did some research (How odd for someone who works in a Library!! Google first spout off second for me in future :thumright: ) and found some interesting snippets, with a basic Google.
    NZB
     
  15. Ha Ha! I liked greenlids' comment that he could not kill the enemy if he was thinking about the page three bird next to him, seemingly oblivious to the possibility that she could be the one with the AK47 or the command det! lol
     
  16. Guys, thought you might be interested, but i was in Iraq a few years back, and working alongside a TA female, cap badged PWRR, 3 PWRR I believe, Sharon was her name. Only female in the infantry (i believe), on the frontline, a great women and a true professional.
     
  17. Going to add, that over here in canuckistan, we've had females in the combat arms since 1989 - inf, tanks, arty, hard sea trades and yes, even subs now.

    The women are doing fine in combat, they carry their loads and all the previous precautions said, exclaimed by males about women in combat are simply not in effect anymore. We're over it, everyone just does their job now.

    Arguments of physical abilities are always going to focus on the scaled back PT minimums that are expected by both male/female, youngsters and oldsters and exclaim that women aren't really pulling their weight (either is the 35 year old or the 45 year old male if you look at what their minimum PT is.)

    In a thread over on ARRSE, some even kept moving the goal post when their arguments were countered, such as, "there is a difference between front line and inf" Fair enough I say, but here's an article on a female infanteer. Then it was moved to the weights a soldier carries in Canada and in the UK, then to how it may work in Canada but it would never work in the UK. "Show me the studies" one asked and when the studies were cited, it was a matter of them being too academic (ffs, the mil coll produced them). Then it was moved to how Canucks aren't as good at being grunts, then it rolled down to how heavy the rifle was.

    I did a BFT every year from the time I enrolled to the year I retired and I carried the same weight as the men, marched the same distances and did it in the same times. (To be fair, I also train for dog sledding and I sled in races that are anywhere from 600 to 1500 miles for a duration of 2-3 weeks in the sub arctic. I have to be able to pack and carry a 90 pound dog out of the bush if need be so what was a mere 29kg ruck?). My regular training is a 10km run every day and weights 3 times a week.

    There are always going to be naysayers on the subject of females in any combat arms, some will use the emotional arguments of women getting killed (we got over that too... Nic Goddard would have hated being remembered as the first female combat casualty - but she was and no one had a fit over it - Canadian women didn't take to the streets in protest over the exploitation of women in the mil etc etc).

    There are always going to be the quasi-supporters that say give the women a chance and if the fcuk it up, they can always go back to baking cookies and holding bake sales.

    Then there are the women who actually do the job and do it without fanfare or even get noticed. I think those are the ones that you should be asking how they're making out. You'd be surprized what they'll tell you.
     
  18. Just to clear up the Marine Cadet point - it refers to her as Sub-Lieutenant in the past tense - that's what she became when she passed her OSB (so she then would have until then been in the 'sailor' bit of the Sea Cadets).

    She's then switched (as some SCC officers do) into the MCD, and as such her rank becomes a pseudo-Marine one (unlike ATC and ACF, SCC officers are not commissioned), with the post granted an honorific 'RMR' at the end.

    So she will be in Marine uniform, CS95s at least with the recruit beret. Having said all that, saying that MCD officers - great job though they do as youth workers - are Marines would be akin to saying that SCC personnel are naval officers/rates etc, so it's stretching it more than a little to bring that in to a wider discussion of women in the Corps. Though it does appear from the link that she is a rarity even in the Marine Cadets (only female officer commanding an MCD).

    The Hannah Snell thing is kosher (though her service predates AACC!); I think (though I may be wrong) that she even has an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography.
     
  19. Ninja_Stoker

    Ninja_Stoker War Hero Moderator

    Excellent post Niner!

    Do you mind if I quote it elsewhere please? It's just that a few people in UK could do with a reality check such as this.
     

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