EU, NO-DEAL BREXIT BACKSTOP...and all that

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Sumo

War Hero
What 'true fact' is that then?

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that say, Caroline Lucas or Dennis Skinner is in any way more corrupt than say, Jacob Rees-Mogg (who has protectively shifted portions of his family fortune (him = about £150m alone) into overseas trusts just in case the policies he supports fucks the economy irreparably, and has massive interest in the tobacco, mining, oil and gas sectors through the Somerset Group and his propensity to filibuster most everything in the lower house he is against, rather than use parliamentary debate techniques to uphold democracy)

Yeah. Dead corrupt.

levers
Unfortunately the odd bad apple is tarring all with the same brush, there are good hard working MP’s that declare they are not happy with current senior MP’s and leaders, Johnny Mercer comes to mind a promising political career if he stays the course, some of his so called colleagues have tried to through him a curved ball, with his association to a veterans charity, as he appears to be a rising star, now undersecretary to Armed Forces Veterans.
 
Unfortunately the odd bad apple is tarring all with the same brush, there are good hard working MP’s that declare they are not happy with current senior MP’s and leaders, Johnny Mercer comes to mind a promising political career if he stays the course, some of his so called colleagues have tried to through him a curved ball, with his association to a veterans charity, as he appears to be a rising star, now undersecretary to Armed Forces Veterans.
It's not a 'true fact' then is it?

So why put that bollocks up? Suella Fernandez - MP for Fareham - is a rank, out-and-out Brexiter and a Raab-supporter. She works damned hard for her constituents, has fielded all sorts of sexist and racist brickbats and recently still grafted even through pregnancy. Caroline Dinenage, Penny Mordaunt, Tobias Ellwood ... Caroline Flint, Kier Starmer, Hillary Benn, Michael Gove and many more ... they've all made great efforts to support or resist policy to provide balance and careful consideration to ALL aspects of the UKs exit from the European Union, in many cases representing a constituency which voted 180 degrees to their own personal choice. They are hardly 'corrupt'.

What is corrupt is parading round on a ******* bus telling weak-minded xenophobes that the EU is apparently thieving £350m from the exchequer which could be easily redistributed into the NHS at a penstroke, as if pumping in cash ever solved the healthcare crisis on it's own. What is corrupt is sitting in Number Ten as a Brexiting PM having written two editorials for the same paper on the eve of the referendum and then choosing one direction of motion seemingly on a whim. What is corrupt is having large parts of your campaign funded by wholly schonky financiers who palpably DO have vested interest in the outcome for their own personal gain, yet don't have a grain of honesty and hubris to own up when they are exposed as a seedy piece of work. What is corrupt is claiming 'we' voted to leave. Brexiters don't speak for me as UK national. 'I' didn't vote to leave at all. The referendum gave a positive result to leave the EU (which I support, and see no gain in having a second vote), but Brexiters should be very careful when they trumpet what they attest as 'we' when they speak of the UK as a whole.

levers
 

Scran_Bag

Lantern Swinger
It's not a 'true fact' then is it?

So why put that bollocks up? Suella Fernandez - MP for Fareham - is a rank, out-and-out Brexiter and a Raab-supporter. She works damned hard for her constituents, has fielded all sorts of sexist and racist brickbats and recently still grafted even through pregnancy. Caroline Dinenage, Penny Mordaunt, Tobias Ellwood ... Caroline Flint, Kier Starmer, Hillary Benn, Michael Gove and many more ... they've all made great efforts to support or resist policy to provide balance and careful consideration to ALL aspects of the UKs exit from the European Union, in many cases representing a constituency which voted 180 degrees to their own personal choice. They are hardly 'corrupt'.

What is corrupt is parading round on a ******* bus telling weak-minded xenophobes that the EU is apparently thieving £350m from the exchequer which could be easily redistributed into the NHS at a penstroke, as if pumping in cash ever solved the healthcare crisis on it's own. What is corrupt is sitting in Number Ten as a Brexiting PM having written two editorials for the same paper on the eve of the referendum and then choosing one direction of motion seemingly on a whim. What is corrupt is having large parts of your campaign funded by wholly schonky financiers who palpably DO have vested interest in the outcome for their own personal gain, yet don't have a grain of honesty and hubris to own up when they are exposed as a seedy piece of work. What is corrupt is claiming 'we' voted to leave. Brexiters don't speak for me as UK national. 'I' didn't vote to leave at all. The referendum gave a positive result to leave the EU (which I support, and see no gain in having a second vote), but Brexiters should be very careful when they trumpet what they attest as 'we' when they speak of the UK as a whole.

levers
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Sumo

War Hero
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/eu-deal-what-david-cameron-asked-for-and-what-he-actually-got/

This was put across as a total loss, but was not, some ground gained but not much. I think Cameron’s mistake was to give the referendum just after coming back from the EU with not all he had promised. According to some of the tabloid press he had been given an EU kicking?

Now we are where we are, and away forward needs to be found. We have always traded with Europe but it would appear the EU are playing their cards close, by saying if we want a pre Brexit trade deal we have to accept other conditions e.g. open borders. What their no deal plans are who knows. How fast can multibillion, multi-national companies can put pressure on their respective governments to sort out a trade deal with the UK, so as not to affect their profits, again who knows?

I think this latest strike by Corbyn to get into number 10 is very dangerous, I have a feeling he doesn’t care about anything other than residing in No 10?

If that looked on the cards, Boris’s option maybe to just call an election?

I do think the next general election will see a shift in our 2 main party system, for the good or the bad? Maybe decided on how our elected MP’s act in the next few weeks
 
You can't beat brainless bell-ends who post up shit like this because answering cohesively and intelligently is a bit of a struggle, can you? I take it you're a Brexiter - you want out 'because', but the because bit is as empty and dark as the inside of your head. **** the consequences. You're fed up (transl: intellectually robbed of reason) with 'unelected/rich/*****/forriners' telling us what to do and all that, yet when challenged, can't quite explain specifically what it is which nips your well-fucked bullethole. So rather than explain yourself, it's go-fetch from memegenerator to appear 'funny'. Except you're not funny, even with your 'comedy' nickname. You're about as funny as paedophilia. Yep. That.

Keep it coming though. When the big mystery of what grown ups talk about in debate comes whooshing in and over your head, at least you can just post up a picture and hopefully, it'll all go away, won't it?

Bless. *pats arm*

levers
 

slim

War Hero
At last levers has run up his true colours.
Turned on the abuse because he cannot understand that those of us who have different views to him do not run up the white flag and fall in line.
I never named any corrupt politicians, I would never do that. We all know that there are those in parliament who are abusing the system though and political parties do not come into it.
So Levers get back into your box that you have suddenly emerged from and get used to the fact that we are leaving the EU.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Any one need pop corn, this could be interesting, I did say could be?
red flags and bulls here we go.
 
At last levers has run up his true colours.
Turned on the abuse because he cannot understand that those of us who have different views to him do not run up the white flag and fall in line.
I never named any corrupt politicians, I would never do that. We all know that there are those in parliament who are abusing the system though and political parties do not come into it.
So Levers get back into your box that you have suddenly emerged from and get used to the fact that we are leaving the EU.
I understand you have a different point of view. That's a given.

But what you fail to understand is that when you stick banal statements up, you should expect to have it challenged and be able to coherently, rationally explain the whys and wherefores. You can't. This is because as before, you have shown yourself to be pretty baseless and narrow minded when it comes to Brexit. Don't worry. You're not alone. You'd just better hope that all the sunlit uplands and 'we'll be alright' bollocks you assure us awaits is gonna be there because it is you who have rolled the ******* dice here, not me.

And you don't half sound a bit nervous about it.

levers
 

slim

War Hero
Thought I heard some tool murmering some rubbish. Pity the box he is in muffles the sound he makes.
Thought I made out a racist remark at the end though.
No could not have Levers abhors racism
 
Thought I heard some tool murmering some rubbish. Pity the box he is in muffles the sound he makes.
Thought I made out a racist remark at the end though.
No could not have Levers abhors racism
Gammon = racist?

Think you need your pills and some horlicks, love.

You've not changed one iota since the last time I served you your uneducated arse on this subject, have you?

levers
 

Sumo

War Hero
1566313772423.png
This is one of the reasons the rationale of change from within falls flat, more of the 27 countries get back more than they pay in, Whenever someone wants change if it affects the amount of cashback a country will receive they are obviously going to vote against. Germany by far the largest contributor, the other top 5 contributes change place depending on how calculated.



Net contribution

Countries pay money into the EU budget and receive money back in the form of EU spending. It is therefore possible to work out which countries are net contributors and which net beneficiaries.

However, this calculation can be done in different ways.

Luxembourg and Belgium claim their figures are distorted by the number of EU institutions within their borders - 75% of the EU's administration costs being allocated to them.

Figures for Denmark and the Netherlands are affected by the high volume of trade passing through their ports, which inflates the contributions they make to the budget.

In an attempt to correct for these effects we have removed both administration costs and the customs duties collected by countries on behalf of the EU when calculating net contributions.

The European Commission estimates that there are more than 30 ways to calculate net figures for budget contributions.
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
I take it the UK leaving the EU will affect you in no way whatsoever then, being as you reside overseas?



Well, you can't beat paraphrasing an 18th Century Admiral out of context (and with added bits too) to crystalise some or other xenophobic groundswell with no underpinning evidence, can you.



So the collapse of the European economic framework is your desired endstate, huh? You do understand what happened last time Europe was so fragmented, don't you? And funnily enough (because you like a laugh) there's no fascistic despot sat in Germany (so far, anyway) brought there by racist rabble rousing to bring grim balance to a similar tyranny over in Mother Russia.



In one paragraph you've said what is GOING to happen makes you laugh, and then give us a download about what you reckon is GOING to happen. Sans evidence. Which part of it do you want? I mean, a groundless panic about software is EXACTLY like the dead complex extraction of a nation from a major economic and political alliance, isn't it? Piece of piss. Just 'crack' ('on' I assume you mean) and 'sort out the problems'.

It's nice you admit there will be problems, mind. We've been ******* ace at that for the past three years.



In a ******* nutshell, readers.

levers
Welcome back Levers - I've missed your pithy threads! ;)
 
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This is one of the reasons the rationale of change from within falls flat, more of the 27 countries get back more than they pay in, Whenever someone wants change if it affects the amount of cashback a country will receive they are obviously going to vote against. Germany by far the largest contributor, the other top 5 contributes change place depending on how calculated.



Net contribution

Countries pay money into the EU budget and receive money back in the form of EU spending. It is therefore possible to work out which countries are net contributors and which net beneficiaries.

However, this calculation can be done in different ways.

Luxembourg and Belgium claim their figures are distorted by the number of EU institutions within their borders - 75% of the EU's administration costs being allocated to them.

Figures for Denmark and the Netherlands are affected by the high volume of trade passing through their ports, which inflates the contributions they make to the budget.

In an attempt to correct for these effects we have removed both administration costs and the customs duties collected by countries on behalf of the EU when calculating net contributions.

The European Commission estimates that there are more than 30 ways to calculate net figures for budget contributions.
Any reference for this? Be nice to know where you sourced it.

You are talking here about how much we pay into the EU as a commitment, more like a membership fee. I'm pretty sure that if you belonged to a golf club whose facilities were second to none and whose membership contained people from all wealth structures you'd be pretty happy if yours was concessed, rather than having to struggle to pay a flat fee which the wealthy can afford and people below a certain threshold can't. Let me remind you that where poorer countries get more back in donations and grants, they are applied for and given with the sole aim that it benefits the recipient country and it's occupants as a whole and raises their standard of living. Guess what that generates? Yeah, growth. In trade, finance and standards of living. It means that countries like Poland, for example, don't have to export labour to our country. It means that their road and transport systems are improved. Please tell me you understand that philosophy. Or do you not give a fat **** about other member states?

How much does our contribution generate in trade?

What I want to know, from you, in pounds and pence, is how much being in the EU was costing you and how much better off per year you'll be. Just gimme a figure. Make it up if you want. Okay, I know you don't know and you will make it up. Because you are using this as a central plank of your argument to deflect it away from the fact that you deeply distrust foreigners. You don't want to be part of a wider economic bloc with them because you seriously believe they are stealing cash from your own pocket. Regardless of the fact that you can't tell me how much (it is costing you, personally) you still maintain that the UK (and therefore you) will be better off out, where 'they' can't get their hands on your cash and give it to others. Some might call that baseless, pointless philosophy 'xenophobia'. Also, because you are making baseless assumptions that we'd never do anything like that it's moving into bigotry.

If you cannot tell me what the EU does so bad to you, personally, and what being out of it will benefit, there has to be another reason you want out. As a bit of a guess, I'd say it's to do with where people are from. You show me no other reason.

levers
 

Sumo

War Hero
@Levers_Aligned I really think you have some major racist chip on your shoulder, it appears to be your only opinion of anyone who voted to leave, sucks of a complex you have and are trying to deflect on to others.
@Levers_Aligned
If this fictishus golf club is so good and we are all members like it or not, and you quote labour reteric of you work hard and we will give your money away. How much will this club cost you personally to remain a member, now and in the future, quote in £ or € accurate as you can with references. There's a good boy.
 
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@Levers_Aligned I really think you have some major racist chip on your shoulder, it appears to be your only opinion of anyone who voted to leave, sucks of a complex you have and are trying to deflect on to others.
Look, I know it's difficult for you to both understand and justify, but can you please give me some kind of financial figure as to how you have worked it out that being in the EU is costing you so much more money personally. I mean, you could subscribe to Sky, have all the movies and sport and stuff but if you don't want it, it makes daft sense to buy that if you are a fat old slob who hates sport and can't understand the basic plot in films. As it were. So you sensibly opt out. Hundred odd knicker in your wallet to spend on bowls and pork scratchings. So you see, with a bigger decision, I'd like to know you've worked out the finances to yourself and have just pressed the 'leave' button because of all them there darker skinned people 'flooding' across the border and supposed 'unelected' grandees telling you what to do (although you haven't squared that one yet either, have you?)

So, without me coming across all 'racist chip' (because I am sure you'll agree, being racist isn't nice) why not tell us,once and for all, how much the UK being in the EU cost you personally and then awkward bastards like me might understand why you voted and realise it was a good decision based on sound research, rather than veiled, irrational distrust and hatred for people and institutions you can't be ******* bothered to understand.

And please, tell us where you got that stuff you copied and pasted above, will you?

levers
 

WreckerL

War Hero
@Levers_Aligned , just out of interest, why do you, in most of your arguments, keep referring to "darker skinned" people and xenophobia. I would argue most,if not all, EU migrants are not "dark skinned" , economic migrants from Africa are a different matter, if that's what you are alluding to.

Many voted leave due to the way the EU is run, or perceived to be run and before you start asking me for objective evidence, no I won't as it's my opinion but for info, I voted remain, I just don't follow the xenophobia argument.
 
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