EU, NO-DEAL BREXIT BACKSTOP...and all that

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fishhead

War Hero
Who are these 'unelected masters' you speak of?

There are a lot of unelected officials in the EU commission
I think you answered your own question there.
It is these unelected(by the likes of the UK or the plebs in any other member country) who make all the major policy decisions. Our elected MEPs are merely there to rubber stamp the policies handed down to them.
 
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Exprop

Lantern Swinger
I think you answered your own question there.
It is these unelected(by the likes of the UK or the plebs in any other member country) who make all the major policy decisions. Our elected MEPs are merely there to rubber stamp the policies handed down to them.
Sorry but that is simply wrong! It suits those who write for the Daily Mail, The Sun, etc to pretend that this is so but officials simply don't have the power to do so. They have no more power to invent policies than does a UK tax inspector to decide that Fishhead deserves a break and should not need to pay tax this month.

It is true that MEPs vote on legislation which has been prepared by EU officials but this is no different to the system which applies in any national government. The civil servants prepare legislation in accordance with policy set by the executive (elected both in the UK and in the EU), ensure that it complies with all legal requirements, etc and put it to the parliament for ratification or amendment. The unelected officials in both cases serve the executive, they do not direct it.

If you want to argue with me please stick to the merits of your case and rely on facts rather than media myths.
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
What part of Spain are you in SB?
Costa Granada or Costa Tropical, depending what bumph you read! An hour south of Granada and an hour east of Malaga, but Granada province. Most definitely NOT the Costa del Sol!


PS Is your gang having a Traf or Pickle night this year? PM me!
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
Why do we need to layers of civil servants or are you suggesting, as Germany and France want, that we become part of the United States of Europe and lose our UK identity completely.
I saw something on an election in the EU the other day, I think it was for the President. Only one candidate on the ballot paper with the option of voting Yes or No. Not my idea of an election.
Can you explain why they need two seats of Government, built at a huge cost, that they travel between regularly, again at enormous expense.
As a matter of interest do you live in the UK?
 

Exprop

Lantern Swinger
<<Why do we need to layers of civil servants or are you suggesting, as Germany and France want, that we become part of the United States of Europe and lose our UK identity completely.>>

One area of legislation which interests me is the drive to 'clean up' the internet to safeguard children both from encountering unsuitable content and, more importantly, from being exploited for the sort of extreme pornography which is sold on the dark net. There are significant efforts to combat this by the Police, the Home Office and the DCMS. All are frustrated that the targets they are interested in and the publishers/service providers involved are beyond UK jurisdiction. The UK alone is insufficiently important to enforce any sort of control. However, the EU represents a large enough section of the world market to be respected by the global service providers and is listened to when making demands for reforms. That requires civil service involvement at supranational level. Cooperation in the interests of all.


<<I saw something on an election in the EU the other day, I think it was for the President. Only one candidate on the ballot paper with the option of voting Yes or No. Not my idea of an election.>>

Nor mine but then I didn't get the chance to vote for Mrs May when she was appointed nor Boris Johnson more recently.

<<Can you explain why they need two seats of Government, built at a huge cost, that they travel between regularly, again at enormous expense.>>

I understand that the reasons for moving parliament (not government) between Brussels and Strasbourg are historic but I do not understand it either. However, the costs are relatively minor in the context of the total budget and certainly of less concern to me than suppressing the sort of VAT fraud which has been exploited by criminals in Italy, Greece and elsewhere or ensuring that nobody can sell goods across the EU produced in unsafe factories or using child labour.

<<As a matter of interest do you live in the UK?>>

Like many retired people I move about. I am sometimes in the UK, sometimes in France, sometimes elsewhere. My family is there as is my money and my property.


 
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janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
My understanding for the two seats of Government is that neither France or Belgium wanted to be too far from the cash cow and wouldn't compromise. As for the move being a trivial amount, it costs Millions each time it happens so whatever budget you look at it's money that could be spend to better use elsewhere.

My own belief is that the EU will cease to exist in its present form in the not too distant future (I don't mean tomorrow), this is the reason that there are so many blocking manoeuvres being carried out to stop the UK leaving, delays were caused by May not wanting to leave in the first place. The UK leaving will leave a huge hole in the EU budget which won't be easily filled. Those waiting to join will in the main be takers not contributors which will add to the pressures on the budget. Other Countries are watching in the wings and if the UK makes a success after leaving will follow suit. There isn't a desire among many of the grass root voters in many Countries for a United States of Europe ruled by Germany.
 

Exprop

Lantern Swinger
My understanding for the two seats of Government is that neither France or Belgium wanted to be too far from the cash cow and wouldn't compromise. As for the move being a trivial amount, it costs Millions each time it happens so whatever budget you look at it's money that could be spend to better use elsewhere.

My own belief is that the EU will cease to exist in its present form in the not too distant future (I don't mean tomorrow), this is the reason that there are so many blocking manoeuvres being carried out to stop the UK leaving, delays were caused by May not wanting to leave in the first place. The UK leaving will leave a huge hole in the EU budget which won't be easily filled. Those waiting to join will in the main be takers not contributors which will add to the pressures on the budget. Other Countries are watching in the wings and if the UK makes a success after leaving will follow suit. There isn't a desire among many of the grass root voters in many Countries for a United States of Europe ruled by Germany.
No doubt that is what you believe but there is little reason for the rest of us to believe the same. The EU will no doubt suffer from the absence of a net contributor to their budget and will need to adjust accordingly. Equally the UK will incur substantial additional costs from operating outside the EU and may well also suffer economically. Proportionally it is likely that the UK will suffer a great deal more than the EU if only because the UK is a smaller unit.

There are certainly movements in France, Italy and Netherlands pushing to leave the EU who will be looking with interest to see how the UK gets on after it leaves (assuming it does). At the moment, none of them are larger than the 'awkward squad' of Bernard Jenkin, Bill Cash et al who have caused problems for the Conservative party for the past 20 years or so but it is possible that they will grow.

At the same time, there are right-wing, racist parties growing in Germany, Austria, Hungary and elsewhere who also disagree with the free movement part of the EU policy. I don't know if they will gain in importance but I hope not.

But because it's democratic everyone will get a chance!
 

Sumo

War Hero
That is part of the £39billion, it is the EU sweetener, that we support projects after leaving, so it is in the interest of the EU to have a deal.
maybe Boris is playing his cards right, telling the EU, renegotiate a deal I can get through parliament or no deal, he knows the current deal will not get through. He has to play careful as Corbyn is waiting for a failed vote to scream for a no confidence vote, he doesn't give a toss about the country he just wants into No 10
 

Exprop

Lantern Swinger
If the £39 billion is an EU sweetener presumably we are going to need it for the time when we are negotiating a trade deal with the EU - having left without paying the bill previously agreed.

It is also difficult to see how we are going to be able to borrow the necessary money on the bond markets at a good rate if we have just reneged on an agreement to pay for previous commitments. The Chancellor will need to be a wizard.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Maybe a reason the EU don't want to change the deal, the £39B would have been our contribution to projects over the next decade or so. Mrs May signed up for that number before putting the deal to parliament, bit of a arrogant mess, giving the EU what they wanted before securing a deal the UK parliament would pass?
 

WreckerL

War Hero
Maybe a reason the EU don't want to change the deal, the £39B would have been our contribution to projects over the next decade or so. Mrs May signed up for that number before putting the deal to parliament, bit of a arrogant mess, giving the EU what they wanted before securing a deal the UK parliament would pass?
I think there may be some confusion, aided by media hype. A lot of the money we'll still be paying is for agreements made long before the referendum. We renege on them at our peril, it's akin to signing a contract and then refusing to honour that contract.

There were many of the great unwashed that believed that the £350m splattered all over the side of the bus would be going straight to the NHS the day after the referendum, there's an awful lot of smoke and mirrors going on with the financial side of the Brexit debacle.
 

Sumo

War Hero
I think there may be some confusion, aided by media hype. A lot of the money we'll still be paying is for agreements made long before the referendum. We renege on them at our peril, it's akin to signing a contract and then refusing to honour that contract.

There were many of the great unwashed that believed that the £350m splattered all over the side of the bus would be going straight to the NHS the day after the referendum, there's an awful lot of smoke and mirrors going on with the financial side of the Brexit debacle.
the truth is out there, shame those that know, don't want to share?
 

Stirlin

War Hero
I think there may be some confusion, aided by media hype. A lot of the money we'll still be paying is for agreements made long before the referendum. We renege on them at our peril, it's akin to signing a contract and then refusing to honour that contract.

There were many of the great unwashed that believed that the £350m splattered all over the side of the bus would be going straight to the NHS the day after the referendum, there's an awful lot of smoke and mirrors going on with the financial side of the Brexit debacle.
True , the £ 39 billion is already down to £ 33 billion .
 
Apparently not. It seems that because Switzerland is part of Schengen which means It adheres to EU freedom of movement rules. However if you were crossing with a lorry full of goods it would be a different story. Explanation is here on the Swiss gov website....... apparently.
 

Sumo

War Hero
Apparently not. It seems that because Switzerland is part of Schengen which means It adheres to EU freedom of movement rules. However if you were crossing with a lorry full of goods it would be a different story. Explanation is here on the Swiss gov website....... apparently.
Every day is a school day
 
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