EU, NO-DEAL BREXIT BACKSTOP...and all that

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Stirlin

War Hero
Since you are having some sunshine forecast for the next few days, I'm going to pop over to the UK for a couple of days. Maybe see what all the fuss is about........

I'll be in the Gosport-ish area if you fancy a pint Levers........
He would probably tell you you are drinking the wrong beer/lager/cider.
 
Definition of bigot

: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Well it aint me or Sumo but definitely sounds like someone on here who does not like any other opinion but his own :) :) :)
Okay. Here we go:

A bit back you made the statement:

Q1 What is it about the EU which makes me a Brexiteer?
A1 Being dictated to by completely unelected people who cannot be deposed.
Which, with any level of examination, is patently bollocks. It shows a surprising level of prejudice against an organisation which is actually constructed by the process of election, of which you have a free vote in. I explained this to you, rather than concess and admit your error, you responded with:

Levers you have your opinions and I have mine.
There will never be a meeting of minds as our views are poles apart.
This, despite your affirmations about 'dictated to by completely unelected people who cannot be deposed' being a wholesome crock of dogshit, and redolent of a Daily Mail/bigoted mindset.

Later on, your mate Sumo said, eloquently:

@Levers_Aligned give up your uniform you can't leave and pick an EU county, 27 to choose from, you must fancy one more than here?
which again is redolent of 'if you don't like it here, **** off.Quite an eye-popping attitude to someone who systematically exposes flaws in people's mindsets and asks them to account for them. Not bigoted at all.

Sumo then said that Janner's meme about 6.5 million migrants registering with GPs 'looks fine to me'.I assume he'd fact checked that and verified the context and meaning? Nah. Sumo is not one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance at all. When these 'facts' wre challenged he even tried to uphold the 'facts' by suggesting migrants 'fraudulently' register with GPs.

You then went on one with:

What we do not need is free EU movement where criminals are entering the UK for easy pickings.
We do not need Big Issue sellers, FFS I have never heard of any big issue seller using the so called job to get into proper employment.
No I want proper control of our immigration system.
If we need them let them in, if we do not don't
In every country that I have worked in none have given foreigners free medical care, free housing, free schooling or free interpretation services.
Why should the UK?
Which in anyone's eyes, shows a fascinating level of bigoted, directed intolerance, lack of understanding and basic, gut-feeling and assumption about groups and sectors of UK society. You don't like unemployed people who try to gain financial sustenance by selling Big Issue, you assume (wrongly) there is little control over out immigration system, calling immigrants 'them', and stating we give them free medical care, housing, schooling and interpretation services. You kinda fail to realise that this comes as 'free' to all British nationals, mind. So, not bigotry there. No, siree. I do point out to you that the UK has the well-established Immigration Act 2018, but I doubt even now you've bothered much to rummage through it, for fear it fulfills much of what you want.

Sometime later, Sumo is on his hobbyhorse about costs of illegal immigrant detention, but typically when asked, can't tell us how much it is costing him. I could have asked him if he felt the same way about the cost of detaining all criminals, because his ire seems a bit selective. He then tries to reinforce his POV with 'facts' which, when the maths are done on them, are palpably bullshitty again, and somewhat xenophobic. He is also using the word 'racist', in self-reference. I'll leave you to work out why this is, given his 'proof' is, in effect, just that.

Then, in the most fantastic manner, we get ... from you:

I do not welcome those that come to the UK to sponge off the social security system and theive from anyone (including their own people) they can.
I much prefer working law abiding immigrants to our own lazy benefit scrounging never working (except cash in hand) Rsoles who were born in the UK.
The referendum in 1975 was to see if we wanted to remain. I was a remainer then, however at that time we were just trading partners.
As for blasting all my arguements out of the water, bollocks, you have your views and I have mine.
Our views are poles apart but my veiws are just as valid as yours, as was proven in the referendum
That is just a small snapshot of an exchange with you, Sumo and others I was happy to be involved in, whereby you two xenophobic bookends nailed your tasteless, valueless colours to the bigoted mainmast. Don't try to walk away from the accusations you two are anything but. After all of this you both continue to follow the same nasty, small-minded tack citing ***** like Jim Davidson and Love thy Neighbour and basically trying to use other excuses to justify your stupidity in making a binary choice, for which the real reason is you are both ignorant, ill-educated and above all else bigoted.

To sum up:

Definition of bigot : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
is exactly you and your daft ally. The proof is all over this forum, and i enjoy servng you both your ******* arses every time you come on here.

levers
 
I think it's all a component of his therapy program....as encouraged by his psychiatrist....many of whom are considered in more in need of help than their patients....though in this case, not so sure....:)
 
It aint me who's been winding Levers up for the last two days. All I wanted was to try and make sense of what was going on over the Backstop. That didn't happen but never mind as Macron says "Non"
Lovey - no one is 'winding me up'. Bless your cotton socks, eh?

I'm having a ******* awesome time playing keepy-uppy with these two throbbers. It honestly is like having a laser pointer and two cats chasing it all over the place.

levers
 

slim

War Hero
For some reason some racist seems to think that I am angry with foreigners.
I have no problem whatsoever with immigrants of any race, colout, religeon or age who wish to come to the UK and work. obey our laws, pay their taxes and not try to turn the UK into a replica of the country that they originally come from.
I am far angrier with UK born bastards who refuse to work and use every excuse available to avoid working.
Now I will admit to not being particularly fond of the travelling community, they put feck all into the country but manage to take a lot out of the benefits system.
I am also not a fan of big issue sellers (of any race including UK born) the big issue is classed as working but I know of nobody that has managed to graduate from selling the magazine to being gainfully employed. It is used as a way of taking advantage of the Benefit system.
Of course as I like programs like Love Thy Neighbour I must be a Racist. Fact that my mate Elroy also likes it (because the black guy ALWAYS comes out on top) must mean that he is also a racist.
Immigration is great for the UK but it must be controlled.
We have tried changing the EU from the inside without success.
I would love to be a member f a REFORMED EU but they will never reform and eventually like ALL empires they will callapse, for me the sonner this comes about the better.
A new union will then be able to rise from the ashes
 

Sumo

War Hero
It aint me who's been winding Levers up for the last two days. All I wanted was to try and make sense of what was going on over the Backstop. That didn't happen but never mind as Macron says "Non"
You accusing @slim of touch paper lighting?
Apparently a back stop change could happen, German gezzer gave Boris 30days for new idea?
 
For some reason some racist seems to think that I am angry with foreigners.
I have no problem whatsoever with immigrants of any race, colout, religeon or age who wish to come to the UK and work. obey our laws, pay their taxes and not try to turn the UK into a replica of the country that they originally come from.
As long as they are subject to your discrete terms, requirements and conditions, of course.

I am far angrier with UK born bastards who refuse to work and use every excuse available to avoid working.
So you're not bigoted. Not at all. Just (waves hand) them lot who refuse to work.

Now I will admit to not being particularly fond of the travelling community, they put feck all into the country but manage to take a lot out of the benefits system.
So, let's just reinforce that. Not bigoted at all. You're not (and I quote you) "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance "?

I am also not a fan of big issue sellers (of any race including UK born) the big issue is classed as working but I know of nobody that has managed to graduate from selling the magazine to being gainfully employed. It is used as a way of taking advantage of the Benefit system.
So 'not bigoted'. I see.

Of course as I like programs like Love Thy Neighbour I must be a Racist. Fact that my mate Elroy also likes it (because the black guy ALWAYS comes out on top) must mean that he is also a racist.
Yeah. I see. Your mate is a coon and he likes Love Thy Neighbour. The two cancel each other out completely.

(**** me, this is easy)

Immigration is great for the UK but it must be controlled.
It is. Next.

We have tried changing the EU from the inside without success.
Wrong. We've opted out of initiatives and dragged our feet. No wonder they are making us ******* suffer ad will continue to do so.

I would love to be a member f a REFORMED EU but they will never reform and eventually like ALL empires they will callapse, for me the sonner this comes about the better.
Really? I mean I have asked bell-ends like you this question before, but do you understand what the **** happened to Europe last time it was so fragmented? Will you blame Remoaners for any consequences of that? Poverty? Hardship? War?

A new union will then be able to rise from the ashes
I'm getting Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious. Anyone else?

levers
 

Exprop

Lantern Swinger
I would love to be a member f a REFORMED EU but they will never reform and eventually like ALL empires they will callapse, for me the sonner this comes about the better.
A new union will then be able to rise from the ashes

Sorry but I can't resist responding to this.

You want the EU to reform. What is it that you want it to become? Do you want a single market so that we can all trade on the same basis with agreed standards of things like animal welfare, produce hygiene, permitted ingredients, etc.

Do you want a customs union so that we can trade with other EU countries without tariffs? The sort of structure than allows companies like Honda, Nissan, Airbus, etc to function with production units spread across Europe..

I suspect that you may want a simple return to the sort of common market we had before Mrs Thatcher signed the Maastricht treaty. If so, I can see your point but cannot see how you get from there to applauding a hard Brexit. The elements which made the old EC work are precisely those which were ruled out by the 'red lines' of Mrs May and the ERG.

So, if you are not simply angry and wanting to vent. What is it that you actually want?
 
So, if you are not simply angry and wanting to vent. What is it that you actually want?
The 'nig-nogs', 'sambos', 'chocolate drops', gypsies, Big Issue sellers, asylum seekers, benefit thieves and the unemployed to be exterminated. He also possibly wants Farage to be running the EU Council, with a giant effigy of Uncle Enoch glowering over the whole assembly.

It's quite easy.

levers
 

Sumo

War Hero
Sorry but I can't resist responding to this.

You want the EU to reform. What is it that you want it to become? Do you want a single market so that we can all trade on the same basis with agreed standards of things like animal welfare, produce hygiene, permitted ingredients, etc.

Do you want a customs union so that we can trade with other EU countries without tariffs? The sort of structure than allows companies like Honda, Nissan, Airbus, etc to function with production units spread across Europe..

I suspect that you may want a simple return to the sort of common market we had before Mrs Thatcher signed the Maastricht treaty. If so, I can see your point but cannot see how you get from there to applauding a hard Brexit. The elements which made the old EC work are precisely those which were ruled out by the 'red lines' of Mrs May and the ERG.

So, if you are not simply angry and wanting to vent. What is it that you actually want?
Plus to trade with the EU we will have to comply with all their H&S and Reach rules, the same as all other countries have to.
 
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