EU, NO-DEAL BREXIT BACKSTOP...and all that

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fishhead

War Hero
I reluctantly start another thread on this subject after all the previous acrimony but quite honestly I am baffled by the attitudes taken by all sides.
We voted to leave and Parliament duly passed a bill by a big majority which put Article 51 into UK law for us to leave on 29th March 2019. So far so clear
Bodies were sent to negotiate a post Brexit trading arrangement the upshot being Mrs May signing up for a new deal.
Parliament ,however, was unimpressed with said deal and rejected it 3 times with considerable majorities.
Parliament said they could do better, but they couldn't agree amongst themselves on which was the best course to take.
That is roughly where we are today except Mrs. May has departed with her tail between her legs and Boris has stepped into the fray.
Ireland and the EU say the unloved May deal is the only game in town when clearly it hasn't a hope of being passed ever in the UK Parliament.
Ireland say any deal must have the "backstop" which would prevent a hard border between themselves and Northern Ireland. The UK says the last thing we intend installing even in "No deal" situation is a hard border. But one thing is certain if there is a "No Deal" is that there will be a hard border administered by Ireland and the EU(I wish them good luck with that).
Each side is staring at one another with each one saying the other has to change their attitude.
The Irish PM says whatever is agreed it is only a holding pattern until a more detailed trading arrangement is hammered out so to a simpleton like me a temporary arrangement could be agreed along the lines of what already exists to give each other breathing space.
Someone is going to tell me it ain't that simple but with a little goodwill from both sides it isn't that big an ask.
 

Wightsparker

War Hero
......The Irish PM says whatever is agreed it is only a holding pattern until a more detailed trading arrangement is hammered out so to a simpleton like me a temporary arrangement could be agreed along the lines of what already exists to give each other breathing space.
Someone is going to tell me it ain't that simple but with a little goodwill from both sides it isn't that big an ask.
Quite frankly, I have little interest in what the Tea Shop says. He is a small fish in a big pond.
 
Quite frankly, I have little interest in what the Tea Shop says. He is a small fish in a big pond.
As are We really. It's all moot anyway. When the dust settles on this, Scotland will have gone independent,and I reckon Ireland will be reunified within a shorter time than it would have happend naturally. Ironic that the DUP will have done what the IRA couldn't do with 30 years of murder and mayhem.
 

Sumo

War Hero
As are We really. It's all moot anyway. When the dust settles on this, Scotland will have gone independent,and I reckon Ireland will be reunified within a shorter time than it would have happend naturally. Ironic that the DUP will have done what the IRA couldn't do with 30 years of murder and mayhem.
If you tried telling that to them, back then, they just wouldn't believe you?
 

Sumo

War Hero
Well my understanding is with our current MP's running the asylum, we haven't a dog in hells chance, of a decision being made, general election in coming, stand by for Nigel?
 
The "Irish Tea Shop" is loving the attention and really believes he is a big power in the EU, wait until Brexit and the dust settles and we'll see how important he is then. Can we ask for the 7 Billion Euros bailout back from them also :)
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
I was out with an Irish mate last night. He doesn't give a fish's tit and says nobody else he knows does. He actually thought it might be better for Ireland - he works in Dublin.
 

Sumo

War Hero
I was out with an Irish mate last night. He doesn't give a fish's tit and says nobody else he knows does. He actually thought it might be better for Ireland - he works in Dublin.
but he is in touch with reality, and not a politician, who don't see all the P45's being printed?
 

fishhead

War Hero
I have no doubt that the Irishman in the street, in the main, doesn't give a damn what happens regarding Brexit. However, their Finance Minister(I assume the equivalent of our Chancellor) admitted on Newsnight(BBC2 last night at 22.30) that it could cost 40 or 50 thousand of them their jobs. He did say he thought the Irish economy was strong enough to withstand the unpleasantness of Brexit but I suspect the EU has promised to go easy on them if they fall foul over the rules governing being a member of the Eurozone in return for playing hardball.
As things stand there will be no winners should a no deal Brexit happen which makes me wonder all the more why some on both sides are prepared to let it happen.
 

SONAR-BENDER

War Hero
Hope the adult took charge and put you to bed? ;)
Not me matey - duty driver, so alcohol free all night. It being peak season, there are Guardia Civil everywhere doing checks at the moment - especially after the leisurely lunch at a beach bar. We saw several tourists, hire cars and Spanish plated, being pulled yesterday.

Don't forget chaps, the booze might be VERY cheap here, but the blood/alcohol limit is lower than England, and I mean England - it is the same limit as in Scotland. So beware!
 

Knotty

Lantern Swinger
Not me matey - duty driver, so alcohol free all night. It being peak season, there are Guardia Civil everywhere doing checks at the moment - especially after the leisurely lunch at a beach bar. We saw several tourists, hire cars and Spanish plated, being pulled yesterday.

Don't forget chaps, the booze might be VERY cheap here, but the blood/alcohol limit is lower than England, and I mean England - it is the same limit as in Scotland. So beware!
What part of Spain are you in SB?
 

janner

MIA
Book Reviewer
I have realised the remoaners have been right all along when they say I did not know all the true facts before voting to leave, so I decided to do a little research.
I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters, and that we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration, our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats, and had to pay eye-watering amounts for the privilege.
I did not know more than 10,000 EU officials get paid more than our prime minister.
I did not know that unlike the UK, 18 countries get more back from the EU than they put in.
I did not know that the EU occupies over 45 buildings 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe.
I did not know that the EU parliament spends 150million Euros a year moving to Strasbourg every month for 4 days committee meetings, any attempt to stop this stupidity is vetoed by France.
I did not know that the EU has had a huge luxury shopping Mall built in Brussels for the exclusive use of EU employees.
I did not know that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.
I did not know that many of them (like the Kinnocks) end up as millionaires as a reward for looking the other way.
I did not know that Clegg was lying when he mocked Nigel Farage for saying that an EU army was being planned.
I did not know that the EU had been financing the mass movement of industries from UK to mainland Europe.
I could go on and on but suffice it to say that I have never for a moment doubted the correctness of my decision, I am so glad that the remoaners prompted me to look deeper into the bureaucratic absurdity of being in the EU.
Apart from all that, everything's fine!
 

Exprop

Lantern Swinger
Who are these 'unelected masters' you speak of?

There are a lot of unelected officials in the EU commission (as there are in the UK Civil Service) but I think all of the others are elected either directly by us (as with MEPs) or by the council of ministers (and thus by our elected national governments). There are also commissioners who are appointed rather than elected by national governments in a system not dissimilar to our system of appointed peers.

The EU is probably at least as democratic as the UK. Under their rules it would not be possible for someone with the powers of a prime minister to be elected only by the members of one political party rather than by the people he represents.

You mention sovereignty as well as democracy. It is probably also worth considering what sovereignty is being threatened if the appointed UK government overrules the elected UK parliament. Who then is sovereign?

Please also consider whether democracy is more suborned by those who claim that the mandate can only be fulfilled by resorting to a Brexit more extreme than any envisaged prior to the referendum (and not advocated by Messrs Johnson, Gove and Farage at that time) or by those you call 'remoaners' who ask that the question be put to the people again now that we know in more detail what we are voting for.

I don't know you but I suspect that even now you do not know the full ramifications of what is being proposed in the name of what you voted for. That is not to suggest that I think you ignorant simply because you disagree with me.
 
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